Sword question - swing vs thrust

[nudj]

Originally Posted by newton

you just... pick one or the other depending on situation

I guess I was asking for what people did in practice and when.

[Donny Brook]

Thrust for:

-special targets that require impaling damage
-against armor that is optimized against cutting; and
-(maybe this a houserule among my gaming group) when a restricted space reduces swing damage.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by nudj

I guess I was asking for what people did in practice and when.

Real practice, or GURPS practice?

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

-(maybe this a houserule among my gaming group) when a restricted space reduces swing damage.

Maybe it is, but you can find published rules to similar effect in Underground Adventures.

[nudj]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Real practice, or GURPS practice?

In GURPS, but actual play.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Thrust for:

-special targets that require impaling damage
-against armor that is optimized against cutting; and
-(maybe this a houserule among my gaming group) when a restricted space reduces swing damage.

This is how the folks I game with think about it. We've never bothered to look up rules about restricted spaces; the players just choose to thrust when it seems like swinging would be impossible (e.g., in a narrow corridor).

Another time I've seen thrusting being used is with the longsword which has a reach of 1,2 when thrusting (in DFRPG anyway; I haven't compared with Low Tech). One of my players is a knight with a longsword and he likes to poke foes from 2 hexes away.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Incidentally, knockdown on hits to the head or vitals occur for 'enough injury to cause a shock penalty'. How does that interact with high pain threshold?

I ask that every time I read that rule. My interpretation is that it means "would normally cause shock damage"(i.e. 1+ point of injury), because it's not mentioned anywhere else, and if HPT made you immune to those checks it'd be even more valuable than it already is.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Rupert

I ask that every time I read that rule. My interpretation is that it means "would normally cause shock damage"(i.e. 1+ point of injury), because it's not mentioned anywhere else, and if HPT made you immune to those checks it'd be even more valuable than it already is.

I assume the major purpose of that wording is to require extra injury on targets with 20+ hit points, but it's still strangely worded.

[Plane]

MA 110 also has "If length doesn’t break the tie, thrusts come before swings" in "A Matter of Inches", so it can matter with Cascading Waits and Stop Hits.

Originally Posted by RyanW

Optional Low-Tech armor rules reduce the cutting damage modifier to x1 unless you comepletely overwhelm the armor, but doesn't change impaling damage.

Is this "Blunt Trauma and Edged Weapons" on LT102? "Completely overwhelm" being the ability to put 1 damage past TWICE the DR, meaning you would have to inflict DRx2+1 to treat the wounding modifier as crushing instead of cutting...

Which is actually a bit different than merely reducing the modifier, since someone wearing armor might have personal DR which functions against crushing but not cutting, and using this rule would mean that in most cases they would get to use this!

Since it says "applies only to armor, not to other forms of DR (e.g., Tough Skin)" I think when looking at gear-as-advantages the key would probable be whether or not it is defined as Flexible, since it appears to supplement the B379 rules.

Originally Posted by RyanW

Using a defensive grip for close combat prevents swinging attacks entirely.

MA 111 mentions this for 2-handed weapons:

less power with swinging attacks: -2 damage or -1 damage per die, whichever is worse.

No penalty is mentioned for 1-handed weapons, I think you actually get a bonus for adding the 2nd hand.

I think you're referring to the "A warrior with a sword of any kind can instead opt to place a hand just behind the tip" bit afterward, which should probably have some kind of special name to distinguish it from the normal kind of defensive grip. It does say "Swung attacks are impossible." I'd think to call it "Point Control Defensive Grip" or "Chinking Defensive Grip" or something to distinguish the unique advantage it gives (ignoring -2 worth of penalties to hit chinks)

It's too bad it doesn't it doesn't allow you to reduce penalties for other areas like stabbing the eye or the spine, "point control" seems like more of a universal idea than simply chink-penalty-diminishment.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Plane

I think you're referring to the "A warrior with a sword of any kind can instead opt to place a hand just behind the tip" bit afterward, which should probably have some kind of special name to distinguish it from the normal kind of defensive grip. It does say "Swung attacks are impossible."

Yes. When I said "for close combat" I was referring to that section's rule about reducing reach to C.

[Plane]

This does seem to be the only case (for swords only) where Defensive Grip explicitly reduces reach...

This despite the "He holds a two-handed weapon, like a staff, across his body" in the introduction which gave me the impression it would also apply to staffs.

Since it says "damage becomes thrust impaling – or thrust crushing, if blunt" I think perhaps "sword of any kind" might refer to anything you can wield via a "sword" skill, rather than necessarily having to technically be a sword, like how Broadsword (B271) includes Light Club, Shortsword (B273) includes Baton/Cattpleprod, Smallsword includes Shortstaff or Two-Handed Sword (B274) includes Quarterstaff+Naginata.

The Naginata is the only one of these which can still to impaling damage like actual swords though, and be the only one I think you could target chinks with. The others would I think only get the "benefit" of reducing reach to C.

Definitely wouldn't apply if wielding a Quarterstaff/Naginata using the Staff skill or Naginata with the Polearm skill since neither would be wielded 'as a sword' in those contexts.