10-17-2017, 02:45 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Siberia
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[Low Tech] TL4 Rifles
Hello! I'm slightly confused on Range characteristics of TL4 rifles in Low Tech p. 94. Text above rifles table states that "Ordinary troops, armed with muskets, often resented the sharpshooters who could pick them off from afar . . ." But rifles in that table have rather unimpressive range values compared to smoothbore guns. Is it intentional?
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10-17-2017, 02:52 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles
The max range stat almost never has any bearing on the effective range of a weapon beyond thrown projectiles, and the 1/2D range is isn't typically of great importance either except for anti-armor weapons.
The practical limit on range is how far away you can hit a target with the weapon, not how far it can throw its shot. That relates to the Acc stat, not the range stats. Of course, the rifles only have 1 point more Acc than the smoothbores for the most part, which isn't exactly helping the case a whole lot.
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10-17-2017, 03:40 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles
Ulzgoroth make's the key point about range vs. accuracy.
There's also the point that sharp shooters were likely better shots themselves so may have a skill advantage. Ordinary troops without direct experience of firing rifles may just have assumed it was all about the special gucci gun given to the special troops. i.e in terms of what different troops historically thought of each other they weren't all using GURPS LT as shared reference. And that extra point of acc allows an extra +1 when taking enough aim actions so for an extra second you can bump the advantage up to +2 (which is not unlikely for sharp shooters) Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-17-2017 at 07:06 AM. |
10-17-2017, 06:25 AM | #4 |
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bristol
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Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles
Rifle men were better trained. In some instances to wear a special uniform (Beginning of 19th Century) and to shoot from hidden positions. Also use small unit tactics.
Rifles were slower to load due to the muzzle load and rifling. Given the black powder propellant and similar bore sizes with the exception of rifling then there is not much difference in range. With basic iron sights and on the rifling to improve accuracy it is hardly surprising that there is little difference in game terms. However, it was not just a good shooter and a rifle. It was also the concealment and ability to get into position to target officers. In some armies this would be called into question because how dare a common soldier be allowed to kill an officer? The trade was for the Baker Rifle to have half the shots per minute but to twice the effective range of a Brown Bess. ROF 2:4 and Range 200:100 respectively. |
10-17-2017, 06:35 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles
While +1 Acc doesn't sound like a lot, the extra +1 to hit translates to a 50% increase in the range at which you can effectively hit a target (whatever the definition of "effective" might be). See the Speed/Range table, and notice what happens to the "Linear Measurement" when you move up one line. That would be a pretty noticeable effect for the soldiers on a battlefield.
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10-17-2017, 07:50 AM | #6 |
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles
training is everything.
I'm not saying that the musket troops weren't trained. I'm saying they were trained in different skills. Like how to reload quickly to increase the rate of fire, and how to use the bayonet. At close range, riffle troops will be crushed by the rate of fire or a bayonet charge.
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10-17-2017, 09:01 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles
Quote:
However, I have had good results just using the following tweak: Muskets have no Acc past their half damage range. Originally worked out here. |
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10-17-2017, 01:36 PM | #8 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles
Quote:
Rifle troops tasked as sharpshooters would pick individual targets, and aim as well as their equipment allowed before firing, because that's how sharpshooting works. Line infantry with smoothbores were at least sometimes trained not to pick individual targets at all, let alone carefully aim at them, since their purpose as shooters could be characterized as being a low-tech training and loading mechanism in a huge multibarrel weapon. Quote:
Shooting at an 11 instead of a 12 or even a 9 instead of a 10 isn't a hopeless exercise, especially if you've numbers on your side.
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10-18-2017, 02:31 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles
Accuracy seems to have never been a priority except for specialist sharpshooters. Firearms have been getting more and more accurate over the centuries but, if you look at various battles over those same centuries, the number of shots fired per enemy casualty progressively gets worse, not better. It seems that the main priority has always been to send as much lead at the enemy as possible and forget about accuracy. A TL4-TL5 musketman would be trained to load and fire as quickly as possible, not to shoot accurately. The only real instruction in accuracy they receive is being told to "aim low".
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10-18-2017, 03:21 AM | #10 | |||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: [Low Tech] TL4 Rifles
Quote:
Muskets fired at blocks of troops. You wouldn't know who you had hit, and you'd certainly never know who had hit you. It was also pretty much an established part of formation battle. You move close enough to fire effectively and you fire as quickly as you can in volleys until one side breaks, retires or advances into direct contact. Rifle men though don't do that. Not only do they act differently, they look and form up differently. The pick who they shoot, and those picked may well realise that they got picked to be shot by those rifle men who aren't standing in a nice tight formation and getting shot back at by you and you mates. That is very demoralising, competing volley fire you can at least comfort yourself in know your hurting them while they hurt you and if you are better at it or stick it out for longer you come out on top. Riflemen less so. Similarly look at attitudes to enemy snipers which are just the trh rifleman concept taken further. Quote:
Quote:
*although I know which rules to best show a formation shooting at a formation has come up before in threads here Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-18-2017 at 07:05 AM. |
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