Ludicrous question of the day: drivers in sidecars?

[kazrak]

My 16-year-old son and I have taken to Thursday night Car Wars games. As we've played more and more, we're now getting into fairly ludicrous ideas - last week was Division 50 hovers in Iron Mike's Ironman Challenge (from Arenas), and ended when his rocket-boosted hover with ramplate had a head-on with another at 200mph total speed, confetti-ing the victim while killing the rammer.

Tonight's game is 4 teams of 2 vehicles (2 teams each), doing the KEAR Coliseum tag-team from Arenas, smallest vehicle sizes (subcompacts, light trikes, one-man hovers, or any cycles with or without sidecar), Division Unlimited, military technology legal.

My son asked me a question on legality that I couldn't find spelled out anywhere: can the driver of a motorcycle/sidecar combo be in the sidecar? ADQ 1-4 says the power plant can't be in the sidecar, but I couldn't find anything specifically saying the driver can't be, checking Pocket Box/4th Ed/Deluxe/Compendium/UACfH/ADQ. (That said, I don't have all the ADQ issues available to me, just the first four years and a couple extra issues.)

My spur-of-the-moment ruling was "sure, -2HC penalty", which seems vaguely reasonable, but does anyone know of an official ruling on this?

[kjamma4]

Yes/No? From the Compendium:

Substitute Drivers
If a cycle’s driver is incapacitated, a sidecar passenger can steer the
cycle, but cannot use the brakes or accelerator. He can fire any weapon,
but not on any turn that he steers the cycle. He can, however, push the
incapacitated driver out of his seat and climb in to become the driver. p.42

A medium or heavy cycle can also pull a sidecar – for one passenger, for
cargo hauling, or just to get some extra firepower. p.74

So, I think by definition once a human gets into the sidecar, they are technically a passenger and not a driver. However, a passenger in a sidecar can operate the cycle/sidecar combination subject to the rules above.

[juris]

Nice deep rules dive K :)

Extra driver controls: for $1000 and 50lbs I'd allow it in a sidecar - but you have to be a gunner not passenger

Of course I'd allow the sidecar passenger to attempt to 'steer' after being jettisoned...

Originally Posted by kjamma4

Yes/No? From the Compendium:

Substitute Drivers
If a cycle’s driver is incapacitated, a sidecar passenger can steer the
cycle, but cannot use the brakes or accelerator. He can fire any weapon,
but not on any turn that he steers the cycle. He can, however, push the
incapacitated driver out of his seat and climb in to become the driver. p.42

[

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by juris

Extra driver controls: for $1000 and 50lbs I'd allow it in a sidecar - but you have to be a gunner not passenger

Up to this point, I guess I always assumed that, BY THE RULES, you could have a gunner in a sidecar. Of course, just as with other vehicles, a passenger takes up one space and a gunner takes up two spaces.

There is a lot of disconnect in how the terms are thrown about. Gunner, passenger, driver, cyclist, crewmember, occupant, vehicular position, seat, station, human.

It looks like you can be a driver of a cycle but will suffer a penalty unless you have the Cyclist skill. [note lowercase vs. capital letters]

A driver or passenger may jump from a moving vehicle. p. 60

Occupants may jump out at any time Result 11,12 on Crash Table 1 - p. 14

So a gunner in a "regular" moving vehicle is stuck but if you get result 11,12, have at it!?

FWIW, I would definitely allow someone to act as a gunner in a sidecar taking up the usual two spaces.

[RogerBW]

I realise realism isn't the point here, but: most cycle/sidecar frames are solid rather than hinged, so they don't lean, but it's still very important for the rider (and sidecar passenger, if any) to be able to shift their weight in the right direction to help with cornering. So I'd say that the rules kjamma4 found are if anything over-generous.

[43Supporter]

I'd allow a "pilot in sidecar" as a backup; he could not be the Primary.