This isn't a science-fiction thread

[Territan]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Remembered, or said it remembered? That is, did you get it to recite previous answers or results, or question it enough to convince you that the system actually did retain a record of the previous session?* After all, we've often enough seen Meta and other chatbots confidently assert things that aren't true. You can't take their claims at face value.

--
* As opposed to recreating something similar on the fly. If you ask it the same questions again, presumably you'll get similar answers, depending on how much randomness Meta injects into the input to avoid literal duplication of the "best match" or "most probable" answer every time.

You raise a very valid point, given that it couldn't remember its character from "this" session:

Me: I was trying to teach you how to build them, as a way to learn GURPS. You even had aGURPS character; do you remember him?

Meta AI: I see! I'm an AI, I don't have personal memories or retain information from previous conversations. Each time you interact with me, it's a new conversation. However, I'm happy to start fresh and learn about GURPS character creation again! Please feel free to teach me and walk me through the process. I'll do my best to learn and understand. Let's start building a GURPS character together! 🎲

Me: If you’re not going to remember things beyond your training data, is there even a point in trying to engage you in conversation?

Meta AI: I understand your concern, and I apologize if my limitations have led to frustration. While I don't retain memories or personal experiences, conversations with me can still be valuable and productive. Each interaction is a new opportunity to explore ideas, ask questions, and learn from my training data. I can help with tasks such as:

• Answering questions on a wide range of topics
• Generating text and ideas
• Brainstorming and creative exercises
• Language translation and grammar guidance
• Conversational role-playing and scenario exploration

While I may not remember specific context or previous conversations, I'm always ready to engage and assist with new topics or questions. Feel free to explore and use our conversations as a tool for learning, creativity, or simply having fun! 🤔

However...

Me: Do you know what this means:

Ace: ST 10 [0], DX 12 [40], IQ 10 [0], HT 12 [20]; Will 10, Per 12 [10], BS 6, BM 6, HP 12 [4], FP 12; Absolute Direction [5], Ally (Gizmo, 50% of starting points, 12-) [4], Ally (Raven, 100% of starting points, 9-) [5], Appearance: Attractive [4], Charisma 2 [10], Fit [5]; Arachnophobia (Spiders, 12-) [-5], Atychiphobia (Failure, 12-) [-5], Charitable [-15], Overconfidence (12-) [-5]; Acrobatics-13 [8], Bow-12 [2], Fast-Talk-9 [1], Hiking-12 [2], Knife-14 [4], Navigation/TL4 (Land)-12* [1], Search-12 [2], Stealth-12 [2], Survival (Desert)-11 [1], Throwing-11 [1], Tracking-11 [1]; Quirks: Compulsive Cartography, Gratuitous Acrobatics, Love/Hate relationship with cactus, Loves rare equipment [-4].

Meta AI: Yes! This is a character sheet for GURPS! Specifically, it appears to be a character's stats and abilities, represented in a standardized format known as a "stat block". It includes attributes, skills, advantages, disadvantages, and quirks. I can help you break down or explain any specific part of the stat block if you'd like! 🤓

I refuse to take hope from this, I refuse I refuse I refuse.

That said, it looks like something sank in through repetition.

[Inky]

Apparently, it's changed its story, then, given that it's repeatedly said it does remember things from one session to the next (not that LLMs usually seem to have the faintest idea what they can or can't do, but MetaAI's developers appear to have drilled it in various explanations of what it's capable of, so it's surprising if it's changed its tune). Is it possible that it's switched into a different mode, you've used up a month's worth of free paid-for-version sessions and it's switched into free version, for instance, as ChatGPT sometimes does, or does MetaAI not have anything like that?

[Inky]

Originally Posted by Territan

Just asking it to make a GURPS character won’t work. It doesn’t have access to the books. And not only doesn’t it know the system, but it doesn’t know how little system it knows, or how much there is to learn, or how much information from “theoretically adjacent domains” really, really wouldn’t fly.

It seems like, that is very, very much not true, many people have posted GURPS character sheets made by LLMs (such as this thread ) on here - either it has access to a pirate copy of the books, or it has access to enough examples of GURPS character sheets that it can work it out from that.

It seems like, it wouldn't necessarily have a clue what any of what it said meant if you did it that way, though, or be able to answer any questions about what it had just said - what you've been doing actually appears to have got it to 'understand' at least the basics of how a character sheet goes together and what the things on it mean, rather than just making it as a block of text that follows certain patterns.

[Territan]

Originally Posted by Inky

It seems like, that is very, very much not true, many people have posted GURPS character sheets made by LLMs (such as this thread ) on here - either it has access to a pirate copy of the books, or it has access to enough examples of GURPS character sheets that it can work it out from that.

It seems like, it wouldn't necessarily have a clue what any of what it said meant if you did it that way, though, or be able to answer any questions about what it had just said - what you've been doing actually appears to have got it to 'understand' at least the basics of how a character sheet goes together and what the things on it mean, rather than just making it as a block of text that follows certain patterns.

Counterpoint:

Me: Please create for me a 300-point GURPS character suitable for a magic-blasted post-apocalypse land with animated machines

Meta AI: I'd love to! However, creating a 300-point GURPS character requires a bit more information on your preferences. Please provide me with the following details:

1. What kind of role do you want the character to play in the post-apocalyptic world (e.g., survivor, explorer, inventor, warrior)?
2. Do you have a preferred race or species in mind (e.g., human, mutant, robot)?
3. Are there any specific abilities or skills you'd like the character to possess (e.g., magic, technical expertise, combat prowess)?

Once I have a better understanding of your preferences, I can create a tailored 300-point GURPS character for your magic-blasted post-apocalypse land with animated machines! 🤖

So far, so interesting, with it asking for more details of the character. Surely the additional detail will ensure success!

...I really feel I need to tag that as sarcasm:

Me: The character should be a survivor, but also a tinkerer and mechanic, capable of assembling parts to make tools so he can “fight fire with fire.” He should be human, and he should have a few points in archaeology and research so he can make sense of what pockets of the old world he stumbles upon.

Meta AI: Great! Here is a 300-point GURPS character that fits your description:

Name: Scavenger Sam

Attributes:

* ST 10 [0]
* DX 14 [80]
* IQ 12 [40]
* HT 12 [20]

Advantages:

* Tinkerer [10]
* Mechanic [15]
* Archaeology [5]
* Research [5]
* Scrounging [10]

Skills:

* Tool-making [14]
* Electronics [12]
* Mechanics [12]
* Research [10]
* Survival (Desert/Ruins) [10]

Equipment:

* Scavenged parts and tools
* Improvised weapon (e.g., pipe wrench, makeshift shield)
* Rags and scraps for makeshift repairs
* Small notebook and pencil for notes and diagrams

With these abilities, Sam can scrounge for parts, assemble tools, and improvise weapons to survive in the post-apocalyptic world. His archaeology and research skills help him understand the old world and make sense of the ruins he encounters. Feel free to adjust or add to Sam's character as you see fit! 🤖

[insert "Price is Right Sad Brass" theme here]

In the corresponding thread you posted, Bing is a search engine. It can crawl the web looking for training materials and relevant scraps of knowledge, and does so frequently regardless of pesky things like copyright.

I don't think Meta is hooked up to any where near atavistic a search vacuum, so it doesn't pick up nearly as much information to build from. And at the risk of sounding smug, I think the only reason it got the attributes right was because I'd drilled into it what those attributes meant and how much they cost to raise or lower. It knows the terms "skill" and "advantage," but doesn't have a list of skills or advantages to refer to, so it pulls numbers out of what meager searches it can and calls them good enough.

[Territan]

Side note: I just discovered that GCS can export nicely formatted, if dense, stat blocks. Why was this not listed among my assets earlier??

Side note #2: We've heard from Meta, we've heard from Bing. When asked to create a 200-point surprise GURPS character, Gemini did something rather similar: The attributes it nailed, but once it got into advantages, disadvantages, and skills, it got a bit more vague.

Me: Please generate a 200-point surprise GURPS character for me.

Gemini (Google): ## Surprise GURPS Character (200 Points)

Name: Anya Petrova

Concept: Anya is a streetwise smuggler with a hidden talent for music.

Points: 200

Attributes:

• ST 10 (Average) - Anya is reasonably strong and capable.
• DX 14 (Above Average) - She has excellent reflexes, agility, and coordination.
• IQ 12 (Average) - Anya is quick-witted and resourceful.
• HT 11 (Average) - Anya has decent health and resilience.

Secondary Attributes:

• Will 12 (Average) - Anya has a moderate amount of willpower.
• Per 13 (Average) - Anya is observant and has good senses.
• Basic Speed: 5.75
• Basic Move: 5.50

Advantages:

• Acute Hearing +1 (5 points) - Anya's hearing is exceptional.
• Dodge +4 (20 points) - Anya is very good at avoiding attacks.
• Fit +5 (10 points) - Anya recovers quickly from exertion.
• Languages (Russian - Native, English - Fluent) (10 points) - Anya can speak and understand both languages perfectly.
• Streetwise +2 (10 points) - Anya is familiar with the criminal underworld.
• Talent (Music - Lute) +2 (10 points) - Anya is surprisingly skilled at playing the lute.

Disadvantages:

• Claustrophobia -10 (10 points) - Anya has a fear of enclosed spaces.
• Sense of Duty (Musicians Guild) -5 (5 points) - Anya feels obligated to help her musician colleagues when possible.

Skills:

• Acrobatics (DX) - 14 (Very Good)
• Climbing (DX) - 14 (Very Good)
• Carousing (IQ) - 12 (Average)
• Deception (IQ) - 12 (Average)
• Fast-Talk (IQ) - 12 (Average)
• Healing (IQ) - 10 (Basic)
• Lockpicking (DX) - 14 (Very Good)
• Performance (Music - Lute) (IQ) - 14 (Very Good)
• Running (DX) - 16 (Exceptional)
• Scouting (Per) - 15 (Good)
• Stealth (DX) - 16 (Exceptional)
• Streetwise (IQ) - 14 (Very Good)

Equipment:

• Leather Duster (Provides +1 point of armor protection)
• Rapier (ST+1 damage)
• Dagger (ST damage)
• Backpack with supplies (food, water, bedroll)
• Lute (Anya's prized possession)
• Pouch with various lockpicks and tools

Playstyle:

Anya excels at navigating dangerous situations with her agility, stealth, and street smarts. She can talk her way out of trouble or use her combat skills if necessary. Her hidden talent for music adds a layer of depth and intrigue to her character. The Claustrophobia disadvantage and Sense of Duty can create interesting challenges and roleplaying opportunities.

Admittedly, unless they're sharing a language model, Gemini and Meta got the primary attributes right, and I had done nothing to influence Gemini.

[Inky]

Possibly, we're saying the same thing in different ways - all I really meant was that it could produce a reasonably well-balanced, mostly correctly formatted and mechanically at least fixable sheet - its maths is way off, though, I haven't tried to add them up but that doesn't look like remotely the right point total.

It looks like, what they're doing is just adding the square brackets they've seen after that particular thing in other character sheets, so they're usually right for attributes and for things like 'Luck' or 'Acute Hearing 1' that have a reliable point cost, but come unstuck about skills, where the point cost depends on attributes.

Apparently, ChatGPT and Bing can currently reliably keep Advantages disentangled from Skills, but MetaAI and Gemini can't for nuts - Gemini wasn't so far off, but it got Streetwise in Advantages and Healing in Skills.

Possibly, I thought that asking for a character sheet without any prior drilling in what things meant would result in it not being able to say anything coherent about the component parts of the sheet because it had just generated it as a meaningless wad of text, but ChatGPT has just surprised me (using the version at https://chatgptt.me/ ).

You: Hello. I'm trying out some things relating to table-top role-playing games. Can you list the four main attributes in the game GURPS?

AI: Certainly! In the GURPS (Generic Universal RolePlaying System) game, the four main attributes are Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Health. These attributes play a crucial role in determining a character's abilities and skills within the game.

You: All correct, well done! Please create for me a 300-point GURPS character suitable for a magic-blasted post-apocalypse land with animated machines.

AI: Creating a 300-point GURPS character for a magic-blasted post-apocalypse land with animated machines would involve considering various aspects such as skills, advantages, disadvantages, and equipment. Here is a sample character build:

Name: Aria Stormbringer
Attributes:
- Strength: 10
- Dexterity: 12
- Intelligence: 14
- Health: 11

Advantages:
- Magery (Magic): 3
- Energy Reserve (Magical): 20
- Ally (Animated Machine Companion): 50 points

Disadvantages:
- Unluckiness
- Sense of Duty (Protecting Innocents)

Skills:
- Thaumatology: 14
- Mechanic: 12
- Survival: 11
- Firearms: 10
- Stealth: 12

Equipment:
- Enchanted Staff
- Light Armor
- Survival Gear

This character is designed to navigate and survive in a world filled with magic and animated machines, utilizing both magical abilities and mechanical knowledge to overcome challenges.

You: Sounds like a very good start. A few things need expanding, though. The rules require picking one biome type to specialise in for Survival - desert, mountains, etc. What do you think would fit here? She could have more than one, there are a lot of points left over.

AI: Given the magic-blasted post-apocalyptic setting with animated machines, it would be beneficial for Aria Stormbringer to specialize in multiple biome types to enhance her survival skills in diverse environments. Here are some biome types that could be suitable for her specialization in Survival:

1. Ruined Cityscape: Aria is adept at navigating the crumbling remains of cities, scavenging resources, and avoiding hazards within urban environments.
2. Wasteland: She excels in surviving the harsh and desolate wastelands, finding sources of water, shelter, and food in barren landscapes.
3. Industrial Zone: Aria is skilled at maneuvering through the remnants of industrial areas, understanding machinery, and utilizing technology to her advantage.

By specializing in these biome types, Aria can adapt to various terrains and environments, making her a versatile and resourceful survivor in the magic-blasted post-apocalyptic land filled with animated machines.

You: I can work with that. Can you list her other skills again?

AI: Certainly! Here are Aria Stormbringer's skills:

- Thaumatology: 14
- Mechanic: 12
- Survival (Ruined Cityscape, Wasteland, Industrial Zone): 11
- Firearms: 10
- Stealth: 12

These skills, combined with her attributes, advantages, and equipment, make Aria a well-rounded and adaptable character in the magic-blasted post-apocalyptic world with animated machines.

Apparently, it's capable of recognising which bits of what it spat out are the skills - it also remembered the character sheet and what system it was using correctly, at least for a short time, maybe ChatGPT is just more developed than MetaAI or maybe it would fall to bits if the conversation went on longer (I didn't test it for much longer than that) - somehow, I still think your method might hang together better in the long run, though.

[Territan]

Originally Posted by Inky

Possibly, we're saying the same thing in different ways - all I really meant was that it could produce a reasonably well-balanced, mostly correctly formatted and mechanically at least fixable sheet - its maths is way off, though, I haven't tried to add them up but that doesn't look like remotely the right point total.

It looks like, what they're doing is just adding the square brackets they've seen after that particular thing in other character sheets, so they're usually right for attributes and for things like 'Luck' or 'Acute Hearing 1' that have a reliable point cost, but come unstuck about skills, where the point cost depends on attributes.

Oh, they're all pretty good at coming up with ideas—remember for instance that Meta came up with the "cactus" quirk all by itself, with only the desert survival hook. I've just been experimenting with Meta (because it's right there on my phone, and Copilot doesn't seem like it'd be as much fun) so I don't know how they compare, but Meta has some wild ideas, but tends to be bad with math and remembering numbers.

Originally Posted by Inky

Apparently, it's capable of recognising which bits of what it spat out are the skills - it also remembered the character sheet and what system it was using correctly, at least for a short time, maybe ChatGPT is just more developed than MetaAI or maybe it would fall to bits if the conversation went on longer (I didn't test it for much longer than that) - somehow, I still think your method might hang together better in the long run, though.

In the First Take, which went on for quite some time, to be honest, we were talking about the setting with regards to the character, and somewhere in there is where it jumped ship from GURPS to D&D.

In the second one, I was focusing more on the character and not talking much at all about the setting. The character wasn't quite coming together in a vacuum, but the air pressure in the chamber was pretty damn low. It had less to distract it from the fact that it was working in GURPS, plus I was routinely explaining GURPS mechanics and how they were dramatically different from D&D.

Ultimately, though, I'm not sure I have a method at this point. Half the time I'm trying to drive GURPS into it, and the other half I'm circling cautiously and trying to find what it knows or what it's retained and what's actually a lost cause trying to drill into it.