Disadvantages gained in play

[ArchonShiva]

I’m looking at the improvement rules for DFRPG and not entirely sure what the intent is regarding healing of lost limbs.

If a character loses an arm in play, then either pays for Regeneration or casts it on themselves or whatever. Do they need to pay $2000 and and [20] points to get rid of the disadvantage on top of it?

If a character starts with only one arm (actually getting [20] points for it), and pays $1,600 to get Regeneration cast on it. Do they need to pay another $2000 as they buy off the [-20] points?

I am *not* looking for house rules, I want to clarify pure DFRPG RAW, because it seems at odds with itself here.

Relevant material:
DFE10: Disadvantages gained from Fright Checks are bought off normally with points.
DFE61: (Permanent Crippling) “it simply lowers your point total. To correct this, get healing magic.”
DFR62: Repair dismemberment is $1,600.
DFE63: Actually, repair dismemberment is $50 if you’re willing to wait a month!
DFR93: (Buying Off Disadvantages)
DFE94: Disadvantages gained in play are bought off normally.

DFS38: Regeneration
DFS39: The various Restore spells have some relevance

*Death* costs no points if you have the money...

[Kromm]

If you receive a physical disadvantage in play, you can get rid of it for cash alone. For example, if your arm is chopped off in play, you gain One Arm [-20] . . . and if you pay $1,600 to have it healed, you don't have One Arm any more. As you point out, even death can be reversed without a point cost (though the footnote about discount resurrection leads to a de facto point cost . . .).

If you start with a physical disadvantage, you must pay points and also cash. For example, if you start with One Arm [-20], you have to pay 20 points and $2,000. Presumably, it was something you couldn't have fixed by paying the cheap $50 for a month-long healing process sometime in your previous years of life, so it's harder to deal with. You have to earn some karma with the gods (read: earn points) and then make a suitable donation to the temple.

[ArchonShiva]

Thank you!

Corrolary: Casting Regeneration on the One Arm (from creation) character always fails?

Can your answer be extended to say that if and when a disadvantage gained in play can be fixed through in-game events, points do not have to be spent?

e.g. A god curses you with [-5] Obsession, which you then complete. (What if it were from a failed Fright Check?)

[JMason]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Thank you!

Corrolary: Casting Regeneration on the One Arm (from creation) character always fails?

If someone is trying to cheese the system and get "free points" by taking One Arm, then have someone cast regen on them, then yeah, I'd (as GM) state that it fails, or even state that everyone they know has already tried and failed (and since Regeneration is a "one try" spell, that's it till they find someone new... which won't happen till they have the points and cash to spend).

[ArchonShiva]

It’s obvious to anyone with GURPS experience that it won’t erase twenty points of disadvantages, but there are many ways to enforce it. As just one example, having the arm work for a week before falling off sounds like fun, and having to pay $1,600 every time you think you’ll need both arms certainly seems like a significant annoyance (The $50 solution is right out of it falls off before it’s regrown!)

I house rule my games so much that I’m not playing GURPS so much as a game based on GURPS. But some times I want to know the intended canonical way to enforce something.

[JMason]

Originally Posted by Kromm

If you receive a physical disadvantage in play, you can get rid of it for cash alone. For example, if your arm is chopped off in play, you gain One Arm [-20] . . . and if you pay $1,600 to have it healed, you don't have One Arm any more. As you point out, even death can be reversed without a point cost (though the footnote about discount resurrection leads to a de facto point cost . . .).

BTW, I have never thought that this was the intent of the rules (and reading them now, I still don't see it). But I have sort of been using this as a "house rule", with the exception that if the player didn't get it fixed at the end of an adventure it became "part of the character" and if they wanted to fix the injury later, they would have to pay CP (but this has never happened that I recall).

This phrasing seems to imply that mental and/or social disadvantages gained in play would always require CP to remove. Disadvantages gained from really bad Fright Checks have been a point of contention with one of my former players in the past. Of course, I'm not sure if the local temple offers concealing or hypnotism to let you get over your recent fear of spiders... so is that why this distinction exists?

[Anthony]

There don't seem to be any spells in GURPS Magic that heal mental disadvantages; as far as I can tell the only way to fix that is Mind Control with Conditioning, or Psychology (possibly combined with Hypnotism). DF doesn't seem to have social disadvantages, but it's normally assumed they can be gotten rid of in the same way they were acquired (roleplaying).

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Corrolary: Casting Regeneration on the One Arm (from creation) character always fails?

AFAICT the rules allow a PC to buy off a starting physical disadvantage (old wound) with points if a PC casts the appropriate spell (or an NPC does it for "free" for whatever reason), since all you are doing there is cutting out the temple's rates. The party is still having to pay for the FP cost one way or another. The temple rates are based on charged scrolls anyway.