How Would Ultra-Tech Without Computers Work?

[Ashtagon]

flipping switches and turning dials

What is a keyboard and mouse if not a fancy way of flipping a switch?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The default definition of "computer" is a reprogrammable device for storing and processing information in binary form.

No, that's a general purpose computer. Dedicated computers may or may not be reprogrammable. Also, modifying punch cards is programming.

[gruundehn]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I think that the technology that changed that particular equation mostly developed before there were computers. The British Isles were up to 50% non-farmers by the middle of the nineteenth century, and the United States and other countries got there not many decades later. We've only had generally available computers (as opposed to industrial scale computers) for a bit over a generation, and the Internet for a decade or so less.

I will agree that most of the technology that freed people from subsistence farming is not computer related, I goofed in that regard. But, the computer is still widely used to assist in farming today and the level of farm output will be lower without computers, general-purpose or dedicated. Thus my contention that the population needed may not be available. Maybe other technologies can take up the slack, but everything is so interconnected in nature that without computers, a lot will not happen and in ways that we probably cannot predict.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I think that's too narrow a definition.

Better too narrow than too broad. A too narrow definition is something we can work with while a too broad one leads to telephone switchboards and abacuses being defined as computers.

[VonKatzen]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Better too narrow than too broad. A too narrow definition is something we can work with while a too broad one leads to telephone switchboards and abacuses being defined as computers.

Well I'd still consider electro-mechanical computers and Enigma machines computers for my purposes - and so is a bomb-sight. But the point is that the only computers in this particular scenario are just those kinds of ultra-specialized physical computers, no mathematical wizard machines.

I've always been very attracted to mechanical computers for whatever reason, and sci-fi with only mechanical computers seems neat for that reason. Of course mechanical computers are god-awfully slow for most purposes compared to digital computers - but not always. The Lorentz Transformation done by a lens happens almost instantly. It will take your computer up to several minutes, and it wont do as good a job at it. Mechanical computers are potentially superior in very specialized ways, but can not be used to general-purpose automate things like digital computers.

[aaron819]

Dune is a good example of ultra tech without computers

[Flyndaran]

They fill the holes with hand waving and magic spice though.
So still not quite "ultra-tech" only sci fi.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

They fill the holes with hand waving and magic spice though.
So still not quite "ultra-tech" only sci fi.

Ultra-tech hardly limits itself to the especially hard stuff.

[Flyndaran]

True. Ultra-tech does have lots of fantasy stuff like psionics.
But once you start breaking out the overt superscience, you can pretty much add whatever specific things you want. No one can say you're doing magic wrong, only inconsistently.

Our universe requires extremely precise, accurate, and insanely fast computations for high tech. So either you solve that problem magically, biologically, or decree your universe is simple enough to not need such calculations.

[VonKatzen]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Our universe requires extremely precise, accurate, and insanely fast computations for high tech. So either you solve that problem magically, biologically, or decree your universe is simple enough to not need such calculations.

I think things could go a bit sideways, too. Some machines require rapid data processing to function. Some machines require large amounts of math to be done before they can be assembled. In the first case we could perhaps create machines that do effective calculations for certain things really quickly - such as the mechanical computer of the bomb sight or Loretnz Transformation performed by a lens. This implies a high degree of specialization, as opposed to generalism, in mechanical engineering.
In the second case a large number of people working with specific tools can gradually figure out how to put an X together, even if it takes way longer and requires much more physical hardware to get the answers.

I think it's credible that there are some cross-over and in-between cases that a non-digital society wouldn't be able to get to. So their technology would certainly by different and in some cases retarded. But that's actually what I am aiming for in this case. I think you're probably right on that things depending on thousands of tiny robot manipulator arms working in adjustable rates and patterns would be either impossible or at least a severe pain.

However, as I've been working on it, I've deciced that one of the ^ items they have is monowire. That means they can build negative feedback machines with filaments able to scale down to incredibly small size. They can manually manipulate things on the micron scale using monowire spool machines, lenses, etc. So while they can't have a 'nano-bot' that will change course and alter its conductivity on the fly as a TL9 society would, they can build fairly rugged little symphonies of machinery that will surprise the heck out of you at how complicated they are. Or, at the other end of the scale, they can produce large scales machines - such as ships, weapons and armor - which have a very fine detail put upon them so as to be relatively free of chinks, cracks, rough edges, etc. Altogether (with Space Jump^ BS) this has allowed them to maintain space habitats, colonize further worlds, and build a starfaring military machine.

The way I've represented this 'sideways' is to basically take the TL improvements for many devices and apply them, but admitting very little TL new devices since TL6. Their kiloton interstellar war ships are still chemical-reaction powered, using howitzer-style cannons, they use pneumatic weapons (because you can't always count on oxygen being available) and have ceramic and steel body armor. I should also note that I took the TL 'retarded' line from Ultra-Tech. So it is the year 20K.

Now I don't know that this is 'realistic' in the sense of 'that's how it would work' but you can see that there are other options for technical improvement outside of the digital and digital-reliant economy. It's a boon that mankind for sure is unlikely to ever give up, but I don't think absolutely everything is as dependent upon our particular avenue as you seem to imply.