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Old 12-21-2018, 11:15 AM   #1
Blue Ghost
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spinward Marches
Default Difference question about weapons.

What is the difference between an autocannon and a heavy autocannon? I mean what are some real world examples of either weapon. I'm just unclear on the intent behind their descriptions.

Is the regular autocannon something like what you see on an Apache, and the heavy something like what you see on a jet fighter?

Thanks for any reply.
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Old 12-21-2018, 12:08 PM   #2
MazeMonster
 
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Default Re: Difference question about weapons.

You might find an answer in the "State of the Art" articles that appeared in ADQ. They were written as a technical treatise that served to reconcile the "fluff" and "crunch" that constituted the major components (chassis,power plant, armor, and especially weapons) that comprised Car Wars vehicle designs.
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Old 12-21-2018, 01:21 PM   #3
kjamma4
 
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Default Re: Difference question about weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
what are some real world examples of either weapon.
Danger Will Robinson!!!

Car Wars<>Real World
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Old 12-21-2018, 05:48 PM   #4
owenmp
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Default Re: Difference question about weapons.

Dear Blue Ghost,

The Autocannon would be a single-barrel automatic cannon at least 20mm in caliber.

The Heavy Autocannon was renamed the Rapid-Fire Tank Gun. It would have a caliber greater than the Autocannon.

The Gatling Cannon would be a multi-barrel electric rotary automatic cannon at least 20mm in caliber.

Comparing Car Wars weapons with real-world weapons becomes inaccurate as one discusses higher-powered, military-type weaponry.

One reason Interstate '76 was cool was the game had four types of autocannon: 20mm, 25mm, 30mm, and Hades. I do not know if their damage values were approximate to real-world effects, but they were interesting to use on the battlefield.

The Car Wars game engine is based on a one-second, multi-round burst from a 7.62mm Medium Machine-Gun causing 1d6 of damage. This benchmark worked well when the game was created, but it makes the game a little strange when actual military weapons are added.

Most melee weapons and many infantry weapons in Car Wars are considered to inflict half to no damage to vehicular components.

BattleTech has a combat engine similar to Car Wars. Non-BattleMech weapons are considered to inflict little to no damage to BattleMech components.

GURPS has a more in-depth combat engine to accommodate military weapons, although with military weapons in real life often one shot often results in the target being destroyed. In game terms, there is no need to roll for damage.

The weapons in Aeroduel and Car Wars Tanks are very useful for scenarios but for arena combat with normal, non-military vehicles they are not as useful because they make games end quickly.
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Old 12-21-2018, 09:54 PM   #5
Blue Ghost
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Default Re: Difference question about weapons.

That's interesting. I guess I haven't read the rules in ages, because I could have sworn that the standard MG was either a 50 or 30 cal weapon. Interesting.

Robot, you ninny....
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Old 12-22-2018, 10:51 AM   #6
owenmp
 
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Default Re: Difference question about weapons.

Blue Ghost,

You memory is correct. The MG was called a 0.50-caliber machine-gun in UA 2035. With the addition of the HMG from Car Wars Tanks and LMG from UACFH to the Car Wars system, considering the MG as 0.30-caliber works better for roleplaying and campaign purposes.

Based on the three State of the Art articles in ADQ, and my library of military books, a rough set of comparison statistics are listed below.

LMG: 5.56mm / 0.223-caliber
MG: 7.62mm / 0.30-caliber
HMG: 12.7mm / 0.50-caliber

Infantry VMG: 5.56mm / 0.223-caliber
VMG: 7.62mm / 0.30-caliber
HVMG: 12.7mm / 0.50-caliber

AC: 20mm

Gatling Cannon: 20mm


The Assault Rifle would probably be considered 5.56mm / 0.223-caliber.

In a campaign, I would permit ammunition from one type of weapon to be loaded into another type of weapon if the two weapons had the same caliber. The referee would need to create some conversion notes for how many rounds are equivalent between weapons. This idea increases complexity but in a campaign, especially a Chassis and Crossbow or a post-apocalyptic campaign, salvaging ammo is critical.

Regarding your original post, the automatic weapon on the AH-64 Apache is a 30mm Chain Gun with a single barrel. In Car Wars, the weapon would probably be a more powerful weapon than the AC.

During the first season of the TV series Airwolf, the helicopter was supposed to be armed with multiple Chain Guns. The term "Chain Gun" is a trademarked name and gun design. Because of intellectual property complaints by Hughes, the gun's manufacturer at the time, in the second and third seasons of Airwolf, the term "Chain Gun" was no longer used.

As mentioned on this forum and in many entries of ADQ&A and Backfire in ADQ, comparing Car Wars weaponry to real-world weaponry is more hazardous than driving through Midville on a Saturday night while only using Standard Tires. :o)
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Old 12-22-2018, 02:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: Difference question about weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by owenmp View Post
Regarding your original post, the automatic weapon on the AH-64 Apache is a 30mm Chain Gun with a single barrel. In Car Wars, the weapon would probably be a more powerful weapon than the AC.
And herein lies the problem with "CW v. reality": _CW_ weapons are *badly* underpowered (they have to be, otherwise games would be "one shot, one kill"). Add to that certain inconsistencies in weapon classes (the AC, for ex.: It's a Burst-Effect weapon, but its special ammo is all Area-Effect types -- HD ammo instead of HEAT, for ex.), and trying to figure out what equates to what is a pain.
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Old 12-22-2018, 02:57 PM   #8
Blue Ghost
 
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Default Re: Difference question about weapons.

That's interesting, because I thought the Apache's chain gun had three barrels. I must be thinking of something else.

Thanks for the run down on real-world equivalents. It helps a lot. Thanks again!
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Old 12-22-2018, 08:39 PM   #9
Blue Ghost
 
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Default Re: Difference question about weapons.

As per my other thread on TOW missiles, I guess one has to keep the "game ability" of the game itself. A javelin can take out a contemporary AFV that ostensibly has metal armor on top of both turret and chassis. Meaning that a CW vehicle with standard ablative top armor wouldn't stand a chance.

There's a few things I'm tinkering with that I want to build with the rules, so I'm trying to get some opinions here on the forum.

Having said that, and I guess it's best that the equivocation question be best left to the imagination and chalking up the game to being a game and not a pure simulation, it does make one think about things like the recoilless rifle, micro missile launcher and the like. But, you can't take it too seriously as the game does have lasers, X-ray lasers and Gauss Guns in its arsenal.

In the end it's supposed to be about fun, so I'll continue in that vein.
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: Difference question about weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ghost View Post
That's interesting, because I thought the Apache's chain gun had three barrels. I must be thinking of something else.
The AH-1 Cobra had a tri-barrel gun.
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