Profiling question

[Jareth Valar]

Ok, playing in an investigative modern campaign and characters are trying to profile a group of possibly related cases. Pretty standard, however, my question is "which skill to use?"

On one hand you have Criminology, which covers clue finding but also has "guess how criminals might behave". This makes a case for Criminology. But.....http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...10#post1070110 this post from Kromm a while back states that Psychology is the quintessential profiling skill.

My only thought would be one could be a complimentary skill of the other, but which?

Also, how would you handle a team working together to profile. If each team member would make a complementary skill check, which skill? I don't think them rolling, say, Criminology as a complementary skill to Psychology just to roll Psychology as a complementary skill to the primary profiler (one making the too) seems right, does it?

[Black Leviathan]

If you're trying to create a model of how a criminal or group of criminals might form, what distinct background they'd have or what organizations or associations they might belong to You'd use psychology.

If you're trying to utilize criminal databases or shape canvassing questions to look for a pattern of crimes that relate to your current investigation, like trying to massage data so you could find any armed robberies where witnesses described all of the assailants wearing animal masks, you'd use Criminology.

[Kelly Pedersen]

I'd definitely go with Psychology for "general" profiling - if you want to model someone's behavior so that you can figure out what they're going to do next, it's the skill to use. Criminology can model someone, but only with regard to criminal activity. That is, if you want to figure out what bank a gang is likely to rob next, or which of several fences they might sell their goods to. I'd further limit Criminology to predicting criminal behavior with a fairly rational motivation - it can identify which building an arsonist burning places down as an insurance scheme will target next, for example, but it would struggle to identify the target of a pyromaniac.

So, to answer the general question, I think this would be Psychology in most cases, but Criminology can complement it if the target is a criminal or likely to engage in criminal behavior soon.

[whswhs]

Criminology really seems to be almost an optional specialty of Psychology, in terms of what it lets you do.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Criminology really seems to be almost an optional specialty of Psychology, in terms of what it lets you do.

I think Criminology is better at predicting what a group of criminals will do than Psychology would be, at least when it comes to crime. If you were asking "which bank will the gang most likely hit next", I'd call for a Criminology roll as the primary, even if your Psychology skill was better. I'd probably allow a Psychology roll to complement it, though, at least if you knew any people actually in the gang.

That highlights another difference between them, though - I think Psychology needs at least a little bit of information on the actual people involved to predict them, whereas I think Criminology just needs general information about crime, statistics and such. Criminology could let a police detective new to the city say "this bank is the most likely to be robbed next, based on its security, its responses to previous robberies, and its deposits", where Psychology couldn't do that at all.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Criminology really seems to be almost an optional specialty of Psychology, in terms of what it lets you do.

In real life, criminology is an optional specialty of Sociology and I'd think that in GURPS it still retains elements of it.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Icelander

In real life, criminology is an optional specialty of Sociology and I'd think that in GURPS it still retains elements of it.

Not that sociology and psychology are terribly well distinguished; distinction seems to be that psychology looks at individuals (and at a small group as a group of individuals), sociology tries to look at groups.

However, in GURPS you're allowed to default forensics and search off of criminology, which suggests it includes elements of crime scene analysis as well as elements of psychology.

[Jareth Valar]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Not that sociology and psychology are terribly well distinguished; distinction seems to be that psychology looks at individuals (and at a small group as a group of individuals), sociology tries to look at groups.

However, in GURPS you're allowed to default forensics and search off of criminology, which suggests it includes elements of crime scene analysis as well as elements of psychology.

The way it reads, it's almost like Criminology is more like the other "combo-skills" Soldier, Housekeeping, Expert Skill, etc. It combines part Psychology and part Observation/Search but limited to criminal activity and crime scene clues.

As for what this is in reference (possibly to help narrow down) is the case the characters are on have some weird occult trappings and very little actual evidence except a single print that has shown up in several other crime scenes across the country. With those files being sent/accessed the characters are going to try to establish victemology (obviously Psychology) and possibly a profile of the UnSub(s) (Criminology or Psychology). Should have posted this before, but a bit too wordy for phone typing for me. :P