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Old 05-24-2019, 02:50 PM   #1
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Boomerang or club?

I am a little curious, how can a boomerang do more damage when thrown than when it is used as a club? 1d+1 vs. 2d-1 at ST11.

Physically it should be impossible. It leaves your hand at the same speed or force if you will as if you hit it with holding on to it. If anything it should be the other way around. Over distance, the thrown boomerang would lose force. And when you hit with it holding on to it with your hand, you could stiffen your wrist at the moment of impact and transfer some of the weight/power of your arm into the blow.

And all other thrown weapons do the same damage when thrown or used in melee. The Spear Thrower being the exception, but that uses a mechanical improvement, so I buy that it creates more force.

Just curious if anyone has any explanations? And for argument's sake, assume both weapons hit from behind, so it is not a "parry" thing or holding back when you attack thing.
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Old 05-24-2019, 02:59 PM   #2
Shostak
 
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Boomerang or club?

Id' chalk it up to the boomerang's shape being optimized for a certain kind of throw as opposed to wielding as a club.
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Old 05-24-2019, 03:08 PM   #3
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Boomerang or club?

I agree the boomerang isn't optimized for clubbing people. I don't think you can use it as a proper club, maybe as an improvised weapon. The damage is for a properly made club for the same ST. If we lowered the damage for the boomerang used as a club by one or two it would only make the difference even bigger.

Still, you can't apply more force throwing something than hitting with it.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:39 AM   #4
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Boomerang or club?

I chalk it up to irrationality in game rules.

Actually there is a physics case to be made that a boomerang is moving faster immediately after being thrown because the extra axis of rotation of the device about the fulcrum of your wrist as it is released lets it rotate faster than your hand is moving forward.

But this is a detail; it is impossible that it strikes harder after flying through 10's of feet of air than it would if you had just brained someone with it like a club.
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:26 PM   #5
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Boomerang or club?

You could hit someone in just the same way as you fling it. The only difference would be that you don't release, you just hold on. The fulcrum thing should be identical. Not exactly the way you use a club normally though.

I can see the difference between using your whole body and throw a spear when you don't have to think about defense at all, and attacking with a spear in melee while you parry and need to keep your balance and such.

So maybe we need an all-out attack, something you do with a thrown weapon automatically (and it is included in the damage already), but it lowers your own defense. Maybe +2 damage, but it can be used with melee weapons. It also gives you an automatic -4 defense if you are engaged, so if someone tries to hit you they get +4 DX bonus.

This could be used when you go for a person lying down or hit them from behind or any situation where you don't concern yourself with defense at all. Maybe even in an HTH where you try to push a dagger two-handed through a gap in the knight's plate armor.

I don't know, I just like more options in a melee fight. And armor can be stacked very highly even on a starting character like the Blob. So high that even a crit won't go through. This would give everyone an option to swing for the star against a basically blind tank.

Another option would be to make aimed shots or dagger marksmanship to bypass armor a thing for everyone.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:27 PM   #6
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Boomerang or club?

Within the logic of the rules, Boomerang does the damage it does because that is the pay off of using a weapon that requires ST 11 and an Unusual Weapon talent.
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Old 05-25-2019, 07:50 PM   #7
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Boomerang or club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Within the logic of the rules, Boomerang does the damage it does because that is the pay off of using a weapon that requires ST 11 and an Unusual Weapon talent.
In a game there needs to be balance.

Boomerang does better damage than a longbow, still has missile weapons ranged modifiers, for the same 3 cost in IQ (Boomerang+ThrownWpns vs Bow+MissileWpns1) you have +2 DX vs +1 DX. Further more it is listed as a one handed weapon so you can also have a shield. Carry lots of boomerangs and you are a killing machine that makes it so no one will ever carry a longbow again. Plus the missile wpns skill for the longbow requires IQ9.

In short:
Boomerang vs Longbow has better damage, more accurate, and safer since you can have a shield.

This is not balanced.

Boomerang, Lasso, Shuriken have issues that aren't worth fixing. I don't allow these.

Whip needs the Lasso affects removed.

BTW, with Spear Thrower and a spear, is the spear 1 handed or 2 handed?

Special weapons should have a niche that they fill. Perfect for a particular situation. They should not be so unbalanced that everyone would be using them. That is what makes a weapon main stream. Thus these should some kind of downside when compared to a standard weapon of same ST.
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Old 05-26-2019, 10:24 AM   #8
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Boomerang or club?

But recall that the draw bows can get 2 shots per turn at high adj.DX. Thus, the most munchkin'd comparison at 32 point totals might be a maxed out horse bow vs. a boomerang. And by the time you get to 35 points, the archer with a longbow will have 2 1d+2 attacks per turn, both delivered at high adjDX, so likely damage per turn will be 2d+4. That's a pretty big advantage over a boomerang in the hands of a 35 point character.
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:31 PM   #9
MikMod
 
Join Date: May 2019
Default Re: Boomerang or club?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
BTW, with Spear Thrower and a spear, is the spear 1 handed or 2 handed?
I'm guessing it would be hard to throw it with two hands while also holding a spear thrower? I think I would rule 1-handed...
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Old 05-29-2019, 10:00 AM   #10
FrankB
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default Re: Boomerang or club?

"In short:
Boomerang vs Longbow has better damage, more accurate, and safer since you can have a shield.

This is not balanced."

Since a Boomerang is a thrown weapon, once thrown, it's gone and that is big difference.

Limit the number to 3 MAX.
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