Advanced Combat Skills

[zot]

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

Hi Zot,
In the first case it is -3 DX, but because the talent also gives a +1 DX, it really is only at -2 DX.

In the second case it is at -2 DX, but with the +2 DX bonus it really is at +0 DX.

These talents are kinda a grab bag of advantages. I would rather that they were more tightly focused. That said, I am delighted that they are including ANY advanced talents.

Warm regards, Rick.

I read "attack at -3 DX" to mean that's the bonus this talent gives you in this case. I'm pretty sure that's the intent. We'll have to wait for clarification...

[RobW]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Unarmed Combat III (2). As U.C. II, except:
• Punch. Does 1 die extra damage with bare hands in either HTH or regular combat.
• Throw: You may “shield-rush” without a shield. Use the shield-rush rules, but the opponent’s roll to defend is on 4 dice. If your target falls, they take 2 hits (armor does not protect) and you may immediately move on top of them to attempt HTH.

Very worried that an optimal tactic is to get UC III, then Throw and HTH all enemies.

The reason I'm worried is that I don't particularly enjoy HTH, mainly all the tactical issues relating to engagement and character position fall away and you have two flipped over counters just rolling against each other with little in the way of interesting options.

[David Bofinger]

What is the advantage of having a DX requirement for advanced weapon talents? It seems unnecessary to me: if someone has a low DX and tries to use its special ability they'll just miss. Allowing low DX characters to have the talent allows characters who, for instance, are old now and don't have the fluid motion in their limbs, but still remember the tricks. I don't really see any advantage to the DX minimum, though admittedly it's modest.

[RobW]

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Weapon Mastery (3): - found at IQ 12
• Bonus to defend. All attacks against a Master who has weapon in hand are at -3. If an Expert chooses the Defend option, attackers must roll two extra dice when attacking.

When defending, Experts require attackers to roll one extra dice, and Masters require attackers to roll two extra. Is this in addition to the 4D normally given for the defend option? That's how I read it, but checking because 6D to hit is out of this world difficult, basically invulnerable to melee attacks.

[RobW]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

What is the advantage of having a DX requirement for advanced weapon talents? It seems unnecessary to me: if someone has a low DX and tries to use its special ability they'll just miss. Allowing low DX characters to have the talent allows characters who, for instance, are old now and don't have the fluid motion in their limbs, but still remember the tricks. I don't really see any advantage to the DX minimum, though admittedly it's modest.

I agree with your logic, but the min DX requirements help keep them out of the hands of beginning characters.

[RobW]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

I expressed concern about these matters before. Can I ask Steve and team if they've actually been playtesting these rules or if they've just thought about them? I think before changes like this are made I'd like to be sure they weren't imbalanced. Given the short time to the KS launch is there really enough time to give these changes enough actual testing?

I have to say I agree. Looking over these proposed changes, I can imagine that they might or might not be in line with each other. But they seem OP in their effects for fairly meager investment in attributes and talents.

[RobW]

I'm very enthusiastic about advanced combat skills as a concept. But given their potential imbalancing effects, and difficulty in playtesting before the upcoming release, it might be better to leave them out TFT Legacy?

Advanced combat skills would be a cool supplement!

Apologies if this is an unhelpful suggestion, I'm really trying to be helpful!

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

My thoughts:

• It should be possible to have some unarmed combat skill without being considered a martial artist. The basic level of unarmed combat, UC I, should reflect just being a guy who knows how to punch. It should be cheap, probably IQ 7, give a modest bonus to damage, and not enable anything fancy like a kick. If necessary, add this in as a level below the present UC I.
• That kick is quite effective and most characters will probably give up on punching. Unarmed damage is so anaemic that an extra die of damage is a gift beyond rubies, well worth a -2 DX. I think the kick is overpowered.
• I'm not a big fan of powerful advanced weapon talents that are weapon specific. They lead to warriors who need a precise kind of weapon and if they don't have it they regress back to being beginners. It makes it very hard to make a warrior who uses several different weapons, but that can be a fun type. I think some fighting talents should be weapon-independent.

Hi David,
I think that 5 UC talents are fine. UC i does allow you to punch harder.
I agree about the kick. I think +1 or +2 damage would be right.
I agree about advanced fighting talents that are not weapon specific. (You have seen my talents list after all.) :-D

Warm regards, Rick.

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by zot

I read "attack at -3 DX" to mean that's the bonus this talent gives you in this case. I'm pretty sure that's the intent. We'll have to wait for clarification...

Hi Zot,
All DX modifiers are cumulative unless they say otherwise. Pretty sure that both modifiers apply. But as you say, we will see if Steve or Guy clears it up.

Warm regards, Rick.

[Chris Rice]

I'm all for a reworking of the UC Talents and for Advanced Weapon Talents, as long as they are in keeping with the nature of the game and are balanced. We've had nearly 40 years to find the holes in the original rules (and they were few) so I'd rather we were careful putting in new stuff that hasn't been well tested. As has been said, we can always have whole rafts of additional/optional rules later on.