Fantasy TL3 +1 Medicine

[Hyrneson]

I run a 'Dark Ages' fantasy campaign, roughly equivalent to 1200 CE Earth. The Tech levels vary from 3-4, averaging 3 but there is one area that I would like others input on; medicine.

The campaign has alchemy & magic. I use the articles "Five Movements of Magic" by David Moore http://www.sjgames.com/pyramid/login...e.html?id=5268 and "Magnum Opus" by James Amaral http://www.warehouse23.com/products/...thaumatology-v so there is a history of experts breaking down systems to see how they tick.

With magic to augment medicine obviously esoteric medicines have been looked at as well as alchemy.
Most healers are TL3 but in larger cities and some orders (like the earth hospitallers) they mix straight magic (heal spells) and mundane healing making medicine TL3+1. (Low Tech gives some guidance here, too.)

Does anyone have thought what they think that might look like and what the repercussions of that might be? I have my thoughts but I'd appreciate the experienced thoughts of others, too.
Thanks!

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Hyrneson

Does anyone have thought what they think that might look like and what the repercussions of that might be?

Well, there isn't all that much difference in outcome between TL 3 medicine and TL 4 (TL 4 has a lot of investigation, but it doesn't really turn into anything medically useful before late TL 5), so there's no particular reason TL 3+1 would have any significant consequences.

[JoelSammallahti]

Well, real-life medicine was worse than useless overall until TL 6, so...

(Yeah, there were effective treatments for some things since antiquity and probably since prehistory, but I believe these were more than offset by all the actively harmful treatments like bleeding and purging that doctors were so fond of.)

[The Colonel]

Divination magic might be an issue as well - the ability to access external knowledge could well lead to the introduction of effective medical practices that don't require any magical assistance.
Understanding the functions of various organs, circulation of blood and breathing would all enhance basic functions.
Knowing about the control of sepsis would also help - cleanliness was sometimes considered optional, sterility wasn't even considered although remedies developed by trial and error (use of honey, salt and irrigation with wine for example) were sometimes used as local antiseptics. Presumably basic techniques are used to treat most wounds with magical healing being wheeled out if infection sets in. It would also help to understand that pus is not a good sign.
Abdominal injuries and internal bleeding become treatable - which they weren't until very recently - and crushed bones might also be treated by something other than amputation.
Basically, a lot of wounds that were fatal or crippling historically become theoretically treatable.

Presumably a lot will depend on availability - including cost to access.

[DanHoward]

The Middle East was practicing fairly effective medicine at that time - certainly better than the Europeans. Medicine in the Middle East would be classed as TL3-TL4 while in Europe it would be TL1-TL2, unless you could find a village wisewoman who was fairly competent. Trauma medicine was better; Europeans were TL3-TL4 at treating battle injuries.

Noah Gordan wrote a book called "The Physician" about a boy in the 11th century who studied medicine with the Persians and came back to Europe to practice as a physician. It has a lot of useful detail about medical practices in both regions at the time.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Noah Gordan wrote a book called "The Physician" about a boy in the 11th century who studied medicine with the Persians and came back to Europe to practice as a physician. It has a lot of useful detail about medical practices in both regions at the time.

(Adapted into a tolerably good movie in 2013 with Ben Kingsley as the head of a medical school in Isfahan. Not as big on the technical details, of course.)

[tanksoldier]

The major difference here would be the magical and alchemical healing, not the increase of one TL.

Something to think about: In a world where scientific medicine works and magical doesn't alternate medical practices are often considered quackery.

In a world where magical healing works, would mundane cures be viewed as quackery?

If both were able to exist side by side then I would expect each to inform the other practice and make both better. In one version of D&D a moderately high healing skill improved the damage cured by healing spells.

[AlexanderHowl]

The problem with healing magic is that it pretty much removes any reason for the development of the Physician Skill. Even with subtle magic like Path/Book Ritual Magic, the healing magic is much more effective than Physician before TL8. With the existence of healing magic, it is much more likely that Diagnosis, Esoteric Medicine, First Aid, Pharmacy, and Surgery would continue to advance because they are complementary to healing magic while Physician would become to provenance of dangerous lunatics who believe in bleeding and purging. In such a world, Physician would only be practiced in the most conservative of nations, and their elites would probably secretly go to less conservative nations for medical treatment.

[Flyndaran]

That assume ubiquitous magic.
Just because MRIs exist does not mean basic diagnostic are useless, for example.

[tanksoldier]

while Physician would become to provenance of dangerous lunatics who believe in bleeding and purging.

Maybe, maybe not.

ICE's MERP had healing skill and herbalism alongside healing magic because magic was rare and expensive.... and at the top end was actually less powerful than mundane skill.

It depends on how common healing magic is. If it's D&D and every temple sells Cure Serious Wounds potions and every priest can cast Cure Disease then mundane healing skill is going to be limited to first aid.

If magic exists but is rare and expensive then mundane healing skills will still flourish, among the underclasses at least.

Also, even in a D&D style universe, would the gods want their gifts squandered?

In a dungeon emergency cure serious wounds makes sense. For a farmhand who had an accident, or even a knight injured in training, perhaps a Stabilize orison and then natural healing is more in line with the god's intent?

If spells, especially religious spells, aren't just assumed to work willy-nilly but actually require the god's assent... things might change.