Defining IQ

[Flyndaran]

Despite what comic books convey, no amount of planning and amazing intelligence or skill can totally prevent chance.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by VonKatzen

Most very intelligent people I can think of have a lot of issues with depression and so forth. And it isn't necessarily that they're socially retarded (as in incapable) but that they find it exhausting and demeaning. This is anecdotal, but it also matches up with the observations of basically everyone I know.

Also, when looking into scientific journals for evidence for or against anything it's worth noting that most results are not replicated (whether they could be or not) and most studies are done to get funding, not do science.

That still sounds unintentionally insulting to those in menial jobs. Most jobs don't stimulate one's full mental capability.
Or teachers of small children. They aren't traumatized dealing with the less educated or intelligent.

[VonKatzen]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That still sounds unintentionally insulting to those in menial jobs. Most jobs don't stimulate one's full mental capability.
Or teachers of small children. They aren't traumatized dealing with the less educated or intelligent.

I can tell you that a lot of teachers definitely are traumatized from dealing with small children on a constant basis. Others are simply in rote-mode and try not to engage them. Some people enjoy dealing with children regularly, but it's not everyone, and certainly not all people who work in schools. Many teachers aren't particularly good at their job, either, and simply don't try very hard.

Most jobs don't engage mental faculties, that's true - and if you have a lot of mental faculties and a lot of intellectual focus, those jobs are going to be a lot more tedious to you. Just as going to a normal school can be for very intelligent children.

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Despite what comic books convey, no amount of planning and amazing intelligence or skill can totally prevent chance.

This is true, in fact very clever tacticians are likely to develop clever, easily modified plans that the enemy doesn't expect rather than involved, Rube Goldberg schemes where any one piece failing destroys the entire structure. A lot of comic book strategery borders on precognition.

[AlexanderHowl]

Most elementary school teachers in the USA are traumatized because they have to deal with parents and society, not because they have to deal with the children. Most veteran elementary school teachers in the USA do not get pay commensurate with their education or experience, and they are openly disrespected by the parents who think that they are a glorified day care and by a society that thinks that they are a burden. Compare that to Finland or South Korea (which have two very different ways of dealing with education), where teachers have much higher compensation than in the USA and where they are respected professionals (a teacher makes as much in Finland as an engineer of equivalent education and experience and there are teachers in South Korea pulling down more than $1 million per year).

[VonKatzen]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Most elementary school teachers in the USA are traumatized because they have to deal with parents and society, not because they have to deal with the children. Most veteran elementary school teachers in the USA do not get pay commensurate with their education or experience, and they are openly disrespected by the parents who think that they are a glorified day care and by a society that thinks that they are a burden. Compare that to Finland or South Korea (which have two very different ways of dealing with education), where teachers have much higher compensation than in the USA and where they are respected professionals (a teacher makes as much in Finland as an engineer of equivalent education and experience and there are teachers in South Korea pulling down more than $1 million per year).

Children are very stressful to deal with, especially every day. Ask most parents. For some people there are compensating factors, but you will notice that most teachers and babysitters have to be paid, and it isn't just for their time.

Getting into the merits of school teachers and various educational systems is somewhat beside the point. What I was getting at is that just as many school teachers are totally disengaged from their work because they find the children annoying and the work boring, so many highly intelligent people are at their work. I know some very smart people working in IT who hate their jobs because they have to constantly deal with technical incompetents (most customers - technically proficient people are less likely to call IT in the first place) and because most of their job consists of what amounts to data entry and reptitious applications of knowledge. The more skilled/intelligent you are in a field the more likely you are to find a lot of the work you do boring. This is in part why a lot of highly competent entrepreneurs start to farm out the laborious tasks to less-capable underlings, who can take the time and stress of tedious work off them so they can focus on what they're more interested in and make better use of their skills where they're really required.

[Flyndaran]

I.T. people suffer, because they have to deal with aggressive idiots. No good person has a problem with the simply ignorant.

[mr beer]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I.T. people suffer, because they have to deal with aggressive idiots. No good person has a problem with the simply ignorant.

I try not to but it can be highly exasperating to deal with stupid and/or ignorant people, even if they're not being actively offensive.

[AlexanderHowl]

In my experience, everyone is ignorant about something important (or at least interesting). For example, I could not tell you anything about Japanese beers, European soccer, or the anatomy of anything other than a human. I expect everyone to be ignorant about my fields of knowledge unless they are fellow experts, so I tend to explain things very carefully to other people when it comes to my areas of expertise.

[JoelSammallahti]

Originally Posted by VonKatzen

That alone is a link, even if there is no direct causal link between high IQ and emotional distress there is an indirect one right there.

You know how they say correlation does not prove causation? Well, noncorrelation is very strong evidence of noncausation. Your anecdotal evidence of the few very smart people you know, and those your friends know, is pretty insignificant compared with the SMPY and Duke TIP samples, which do not show any evidence of negative effects of very high IQ on achievement or adjustment.

Originally Posted by VonKatzen

Also, when looking into scientific journals for evidence for or against anything it's worth noting that most results are not replicated (whether they could be or not) and most studies are done to get funding, not do science.

The replication crisis in psychology -which is different in its mechanics and origins from the crisis in biomedical science, for example- is a question of small samples, fishing for statistical significance, and publication bias. Those just are not a factor when we're talking about a large sample accumulated over decades, in which no correlation is found between variables of interest.

[Flyndaran]

No one can really agree on what I.Q. is in real life let alone create a test that most can agree actually measures it.
So any study purporting to determine what characteristics high I.Q. people do or do not share is already rather suspect in accuracy.