What are good guidelines for maximum Innate attack damage?

Yako · 02-07-2014, 11:29 AM

I want to start the thread by gathering a few of those that have been suggested in various books, but I hope some of you may contribute more and maybe discuss them.

Innate attacks are something that will be very often used for all varieties of builds, advantage based magic, psi, supers, powers of priests / chosen of a god...

Innate Attacks are priced with the assumption that other sources of big damage are available, meaning, they have flat prices that do not, by default change depending on the things available in a campaign.

Gurps Powers offers the "Arms Control" box that suggests that LC 2 or above should be freely available and everything beyond that paired with an unusual background cost.

Supers offers the different scales, which have limits for both Innate attacks, ST levels, DR and Injury Tolerance Damage Reduction.

Both of those are useful guidelines when comparing those capabilities to modern weapons, they are less useful though for low tech games or similar genres where even firearms are not really a thing to measure up against.

Dungeon Fantasy and Monster Hunter respectively have limits for Psi Abilities (Dungeon Fantasy is 1 dice per Talent level, maximum six, Monster Hunter is half will if I recall correctly).
Given that Will could reach the 20 (or maybe above), this gives a maximum Innate attack to CharacterPoint ratio that is rather close.

I myself use powers quite a lot and I admit, I find it a bit tricky at times to decide who gets to buy what kind attack to which level (or, to what level I should advice abilities to be built, as I tend to do the building for my players).
Especially in fantasy settings where I only really have the ST of the warriors to compare it to, it can be tricky.

In particular, when someone does have big enhancements that make the damage quite a lot more powerful (good armor divisors, area effect, other penetration modifiers, cyclic, persistent, etc.)

It has not really been a problem for me so far, but I do worry sometimes if I should allow / encourage more firepower or not...

Any good suggestions from you, maybe some about total cost limits pre limitations (I use multiplicative modifiers where limitations are much more of a cost saver)?

Nereidalbel · 02-07-2014, 11:34 AM

If you want a reasonable cap on damage for low tech games, cap ranged IA at the higher of the Magery cap or the damage of the highest ST bow/crossbow available, and use ST-Based for melee IA.

GodBeastX · 02-07-2014, 12:12 PM

I tend to go with "You can't have more innate attack than the attack could Psuedo-realistically create."

So if someone is doing a lightning bolt, they can't do more innate attack than a lightning bolt in nature would theoretically produce on average.

It tends to end up between 1d6 (A demon char we had that created magic missiles) and 4d6 (Someone who had a sun-beam laser).

I tend to generally force fatigue point use for something that ends up devestating so people don't end up making combat boring for people to watch. A mage would have to spend fatigue to make their fireball, why doesn't the demon? :)

~~Figleaf23~~ · 02-07-2014, 12:18 PM

How much HP do you want to be able to frag with 1 shot?

It takes 60 hits to demolish a typical human organism; 110 to utterly destroy it.

Psychotime · 02-15-2014, 07:21 AM

Model a "maximum" innate attack based on a decided limit, then disallow players from buying an innate attack that costs more CP than that maximum.

For example, say you don't want your players to have attacks that are any stronger than a modern sniper rifle. So you model one with innate attack.

Modelling the Sniper Rifle .388 from B279, that makes for a (close to) 80 point innate attack (not really, I just did something quick). So in this example, you won't allow players to make innate attacks that cost more than 80 points. Unless there's an extreme munchkin in the group, it should regulate it self pretty well. Players will then have to choose limitations to gain more power.

You might even require attacks to cost FP, which I always think is a good idea.

You might also let players have innate attacks that don't need to cost FP if they fit under a small point limit.

02-07-2014, 11:29 AM	#1
Yako Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Germany	What are good guidelines for maximum Innate attack damage? I want to start the thread by gathering a few of those that have been suggested in various books, but I hope some of you may contribute more and maybe discuss them. Innate attacks are something that will be very often used for all varieties of builds, advantage based magic, psi, supers, powers of priests / chosen of a god... Innate Attacks are priced with the assumption that other sources of big damage are available, meaning, they have flat prices that do not, by default change depending on the things available in a campaign. Gurps Powers offers the "Arms Control" box that suggests that LC 2 or above should be freely available and everything beyond that paired with an unusual background cost. Supers offers the different scales, which have limits for both Innate attacks, ST levels, DR and Injury Tolerance Damage Reduction. Both of those are useful guidelines when comparing those capabilities to modern weapons, they are less useful though for low tech games or similar genres where even firearms are not really a thing to measure up against. Dungeon Fantasy and Monster Hunter respectively have limits for Psi Abilities (Dungeon Fantasy is 1 dice per Talent level, maximum six, Monster Hunter is half will if I recall correctly). Given that Will could reach the 20 (or maybe above), this gives a maximum Innate attack to CharacterPoint ratio that is rather close. I myself use powers quite a lot and I admit, I find it a bit tricky at times to decide who gets to buy what kind attack to which level (or, to what level I should advice abilities to be built, as I tend to do the building for my players). Especially in fantasy settings where I only really have the ST of the warriors to compare it to, it can be tricky. In particular, when someone does have big enhancements that make the damage quite a lot more powerful (good armor divisors, area effect, other penetration modifiers, cyclic, persistent, etc.) It has not really been a problem for me so far, but I do worry sometimes if I should allow / encourage more firepower or not... Any good suggestions from you, maybe some about total cost limits pre limitations (I use multiplicative modifiers where limitations are much more of a cost saver)?

02-07-2014, 11:34 AM	#2
Nereidalbel Join Date: May 2013 Location: Ellicott City, MD	Re: What are good guidelines for maximum Innate attack damage? If you want a reasonable cap on damage for low tech games, cap ranged IA at the higher of the Magery cap or the damage of the highest ST bow/crossbow available, and use ST-Based for melee IA.

02-07-2014, 12:12 PM	#3
GodBeastX Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Behind You	Re: What are good guidelines for maximum Innate attack damage? I tend to go with "You can't have more innate attack than the attack could Psuedo-realistically create." So if someone is doing a lightning bolt, they can't do more innate attack than a lightning bolt in nature would theoretically produce on average. It tends to end up between 1d6 (A demon char we had that created magic missiles) and 4d6 (Someone who had a sun-beam laser). I tend to generally force fatigue point use for something that ends up devestating so people don't end up making combat boring for people to watch. A mage would have to spend fatigue to make their fireball, why doesn't the demon? :)

02-07-2014, 12:18 PM	#4
~~Figleaf23~~ Banned Join Date: Apr 2008	Re: What are good guidelines for maximum Innate attack damage? How much HP do you want to be able to frag with 1 shot? It takes 60 hits to demolish a typical human organism; 110 to utterly destroy it.

02-15-2014, 07:21 AM	#5
Psychotime Join Date: Jun 2009	Re: What are good guidelines for maximum Innate attack damage? Model a "maximum" innate attack based on a decided limit, then disallow players from buying an innate attack that costs more CP than that maximum. For example, say you don't want your players to have attacks that are any stronger than a modern sniper rifle. So you model one with innate attack. Modelling the Sniper Rifle .388 from B279, that makes for a (close to) 80 point innate attack (not really, I just did something quick). So in this example, you won't allow players to make innate attacks that cost more than 80 points. Unless there's an extreme munchkin in the group, it should regulate it self pretty well. Players will then have to choose limitations to gain more power. You might even require attacks to cost FP, which I always think is a good idea. You might also let players have innate attacks that don't need to cost FP if they fit under a small point limit. __________________ Who is this kid? [link]