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Old 03-11-2018, 08:51 PM   #1
Otaku
 
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Default [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#56): Favor

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If you're new to this series or just want to leave feedback about it, check out the Introduction Thread. If you need help finding something we've already discussed, johndallman is maintaining an index of which traits we've discussed. This is especially handy if the trait you are searching for happens to have been part of a multi-subject review.

Basic

Favor (p. B55) is listed as a mundane Social Advantage with a variable cost, and acts as a one-time instance of the following other Social Advantages:
  • Ally
  • Contact
  • Contact Group
  • Patron
I am not seeing "Ally Group" listed, which seems odd given that Contact Group and Patron are allowed; is this an error in my copy of [Basic], or am I simply missing the reason why an Ally Group cannot owe someone a Favor? To calculate the value of a Favor, figure out the cost of taking the referenced Advantage, then divide that cost by 5.

When you wish to use a Favor, the GM will roll against the frequency of appearance selected for the underlying trait. If the roll succeeds, proceed playing it out as if it were the underlying trait except that you remove the Favor (and its CP value) from your character once the Favor has revolved; the debt has been repaid. Unless the appearance roll was a three or a four; if you are that fortunate, the NPC(s) in questions still feel(s) indebted to you, and you retain the Favor to use another time. If the appearance roll is failed, you retain the Favor, but for whatever appropriate in-game justification, you can't collect on it this session. The entry also makes it clear that this trait can definitely be purchased in play, and may even serve as an appropriate reward for players from the GM.

Related Traits

A little redundant but
  • Ally
  • Contact
  • Contact Group
  • Patron

Other Supplements
  • GURPS Power-Ups 2: Perks clarifies on p. 17 that Favor which costs only 1 CP counts as a Social Perk, and gives a few examples throughout the text.
  • GURPS Social Engineering expands on what can be done with Favor.
  • GURPS Supers gives some other traits that use rules similar to Favor for how they work; one time for one-fifth the normal price.
  • GURPS Update lets us know that the Third Edition version of this trait has the same name and CP cost, but contains a note warning that the value of Allies, Contacts, and Patrons may have changed between editions.

Past Editions

The reference I am using for the Third Edition version of Favor is Compendium I, page 25. As stated in GURPS Update, very little has changed; even the flavor of the write-up in Compendium I is quite similar, though not word-for-word. Contact Group isn't listed as an option, and while I won't be detailing it here, Ally, Contact, and/or Patron may have different costs.

Useful Links

Feel free to suggest any existing threads or other, appropriate links on this matter.

Discussion Starters

This is (usually) a generic list of questions for those who want to participate in the discussion but need a little help. If you already know what you want to say, feel free to skip these. ;)
  • Have you ever taken Favor for one of your PCs or NPCs?
  • Is there anything Favor does really well?
  • Is there anything you think Favor could or should do differently?
  • Any related traits you believe are necessary for full discussion? Go ahead and bring them up, but remember that this is a thread for Favor.
  • Any thoughts on how the 4e version of Favor compares to its counterpart from earlier editions?
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Last edited by Otaku; 03-18-2018 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:48 AM   #2
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#56): Favor

It was a long, long time ago, in a space opera game meant to resemble Napoleonics in spaace. I once took Favour that was . . . either it was Patron or Ally Group, but it represented ability to call on a wing of a spacefleet. It was a one-shot but the GM allowed it. I used it in the final scene of the session to call an airstrike. I'm not sure if that made a difference (relative to just using guns on the monster), but it felt satisfying to be the one pulling the big red button.
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#56): Favor

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
It was a long, long time ago, in a space opera game meant to resemble Napoleonics in spaace. I once took Favour that was . . . either it was Patron or Ally Group, but it represented ability to call on a wing of a spacefleet. It was a one-shot but the GM allowed it. I used it in the final scene of the session to call an airstrike. I'm not sure if that made a difference (relative to just using guns on the monster), but it felt satisfying to be the one pulling the big red button.
Nice!

What isn't nice is that I had some severe copy/paste errors and had a few chunks from "Extra Life" floating around in my first post. Hopefully, I've gotten them all corrected by now. >.>
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Old 03-13-2018, 09:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#56): Favor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
....Favor (p. B55) is listed as a mundane Social Advantage with a variable cost, and acts as a one-time instance of the following other Social Advantages:
  • Ally
  • Contact
  • Contact Group
  • Patron
I am not seeing "Ally Group" listed, which seems odd given that Contact Group and Patron are allowed; is this an error in my copy of [Basic], or am I simply missing the reason why an Ally Group cannot owe someone a Favor?....[/LIST]
My suspicion is that this is because an Ally Group is treated differently than a Contact Group. In game terms, a Contact Group is a collection of individuals, "a network of Contacts" (B. 44). Each one of those people may or not come into play, but theoretically they are distinct individuals.

An Ally Group, though, is something of a special case. For bookkeeping purposes, "....you can treat a group of related Allies as a single trait to save space on your character sheet." (B. 37) This seems to be just for bookkeeping purposes, not as an in-game concept. A "true" Ally Group is "identical and interchangeable allies that share a single character sheet – for instance, an army of low-grade thugs or a swarm of robot drones...." (B. 37). From a practical point of view, they're all going to know the same people, so there's no benefit in it being a group.
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#56): Favor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade View Post
My suspicion is that this is because an Ally Group is treated differently than a Contact Group. In game terms, a Contact Group is a collection of individuals, "a network of Contacts" (B. 44). Each one of those people may or not come into play, but theoretically they are distinct individuals.
Isn't it just because Ally Group is listed under the Allies advantage, while Contacts and Contact Group are broken out as separate advantages?
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:42 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#56): Favor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Isn't it just because Ally Group is listed under the Allies advantage, while Contacts and Contact Group are broken out as separate advantages?
Yes. An Ally Group is just a kind of Ally.

As for "Favor", I would never design a character with one. It seems more like something the GM would give an adventure reward.
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#56): Favor

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Yes. An Ally Group is just a kind of Ally.

As for "Favor", I would never design a character with one. It seems more like something the GM would give an adventure reward.
I can see it as a good bit of RP - "I want to include this bit of my backstory in the mechanics of the game, so I'm going to buy this Favor from the guy I helped."

It occurs to me that a disadvantage version of this would be a neat little story hook for a player to put on their character sheet.
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Old 03-15-2018, 03:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#56): Favor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Isn't it just because Ally Group is listed under the Allies advantage, while Contacts and Contact Group are broken out as separate advantages?
That may well be the primary reason Ally Group is not mentioned as an option; it probably is. I do suspect the reason Ally Group isn't listed separately is for the reasons I stated earlier.
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Old 03-15-2018, 03:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#56): Favor

While I like Favor, I do sometimes have a problem with the cost. Something like the below happened in one of our games.

Imagine getting a favor from two different lords, both equally wealthy and powerful. The favor from each should cost about the same, right?

But let's imagine one of the lords is personally very limited; he's got a bad leg, can't see or hear very well, is in poor health, isn't terribly smart, is homely, etc. But he has wise advisors who run things for him. He's built on half the PCs points.

The other lord is a paragon, strong enough to wrestle bears, a fast runner with keen taste and smell, a professional level dancer, a grand master chess player, very handsome, etc. But he has wise advisors who run things for him. He's built on double the PC's points.

First Lord Cost: Ally (50% PC's points) 2 points, Frequency Roll 9 or less, Special Abilities +50%, Favor 1/5 = 1 point.

Second Lord Cost: Patron (200% PC's points) 15 points, Frequency Roll 9 or less, Special Abilities +50%, Favor 1/5 = 5 points.

Considering both lords have the same wealth and power, is a Favor from the second lord really likely to be five times better than one from the first?
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Old 03-15-2018, 04:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#56): Favor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alden Loveshade View Post
Considering both lords have the same wealth and power, is a Favor from the second lord really likely to be five times better than one from the first?
They should both be built as Patrons and only including their Wealth and personal Allies, etc, not their stats, unless the second Lord would be likely to personally intervene.
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