Query: The Draw Power Spell and "Infinite Worlds"

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Mgellis

A moot point. Gernsback is a no mana zone (see Infinite Worlds, p. 126).

Which is why the OP specified that the character would have the Mana Enhancer Advantage, allowing him to have a little pocket of magic with him in an otherwise barren world.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Weird. It's broadcast by a machine and received by a machine. Why does it suddenly become 'wild' again?

I can see where Shrubbery is coming from, here- I'd say that "not wild" doesn't necessarily mean "machine". Few would call a brick wall or a nail a machine, after all. More relevantly, saying that the light an electric lamp gives off is a machine would be stretching the term much farther than I'd be comfortable with.

However:

The book says that the source must be in a form usable by a machine, and specifies that "a water wheel would be a viable source, but a waterfall would not be". I think this may be an example of Magic not thinking things through, though, given that a waterfall can power a machine (namely, a water wheel).

I would probably rule, were I GMing, that since the energy of which we speak was designed to provide energy (unlike a waterfall) , it can be tapped by the spell.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

I would probably rule, were I GMing, that since the energy of which we speak was designed to provide energy (unlike a waterfall) , it can be tapped by the spell.

Honestly, my response was more from a game balance perspective. If you allow someone with Draw Power to tap Gernsback's broadcase power without the medium of a receiver, you're essentially handing them unlimited power. Although, it suddenly occurs to me that that has its drawbacks, too. You'd have to have utterly ridiculous Magery to safely tap the amount of power that's just floating about in the air. If I was mage, I'd want that receiver, just to act as a brake on the flow!

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Honestly, my response was more from a game balance perspective.

That's cool, though I think it makes sense descriptively as well. The water wheel example from the text seems to indicate that you need either the generator or a converter as the source.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

That's cool, though I think it makes sense descriptively as well. The water wheel example from the text seems to indicate that you need either the generator or a converter as the source.

The problem, though, is what about the conduit conducting the power from generator to converter? That's what the broadcast power is really about, IMO. Can you cast Draw Power on an overhead power line? How about an axle that's attached to a waterwheel? I was really only opposed to allowing Draw Power to tap the broadcast power because I thought it would be unbalanced, but I think I'd prefer to allow people to tap things like power lines and camshafts, and the broadcast power has its own limitation (i.e, you explode if you try to tap it directly. Man, that would be a nasty crit fail result for Draw Power on Gernsback.).

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

The problem, though, is what about the conduit conducting the power from generator to converter? That's what the broadcast power is really about, IMO. Can you cast Draw Power on an overhead power line? How about an axle that's attached to a waterwheel? I was really only opposed to allowing Draw Power to tap the broadcast power because I thought it would be unbalanced, but I think I'd prefer to allow people to tap things like power lines and camshafts, and the broadcast power has its own limitation (i.e, you explode if you try to tap it directly. Man, that would be a nasty crit fail result for Draw Power on Gernsback.).

AIS, and as I thought you were saying in your first post, I don't think conduits would qualify as sources.

It's not clear that the intention of the maximum power clause is to make the mage take injury if he taps an overly energetic power source... my impression was that it was supposed to be a safe threshold, which a mage could exceed (in a time of need) at the cost of FP damage and the risk of heart attack.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

The book says that the source must be in a form usable by a machine, and specifies that "a water wheel would be a viable source, but a waterfall would not be". I think this may be an example of Magic not thinking things through, though, given that a waterfall can power a machine (namely, a water wheel).

Uh uh, nice try but a water wheel suitable for tapping a waterfall is not a machine in the sense of the spell as it performs no useful work itself. It merely turns the natural motion into mechanical energy that can be used to perfom useful work.

A water wheel that raised water would be a machine and you could tap the machine that powered it (even if it was another water wheel).

There was a hole in the 3e description about tapping some natural sources that I used but the 4e description s quite clear. You can tap the outlet but not the transmission line. You can tap the waterwheel even if the axle isn't connected to anything but not the waterfall itself.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

It's not clear that the intention of the maximum power clause is to make the mage take injury if he taps an overly energetic power source... my impression was that it was supposed to be a safe threshold, which a mage could exceed (in a time of need) at the cost of FP damage and the risk of heart attack.

Hmm. I've always interpreted it as the max safe source strength. The text is ambiguous on this one, I think. I think I prefer my interpretation - it means that mages have a reason to be careful around giant power generators. If you've got a 40 GW nuclear plant, you'd better be sure you have the Magery to handle it, or find an outlet with a bit less of a current going through it.

Which suggests an interesting idea for a new spell: Phantom Outlet. Creates an outlet from a power source than an appropriate machine can tap, or it can be used to cast Draw Power on safely. Conduct Power would be a prereq, obviously.

[Mgellis]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

Which is why the OP specified that the character would have the Mana Enhancer Advantage, allowing him to have a little pocket of magic with him in an otherwise barren world.

Ah, missed that. Sorry.

In answer to the original question, I'd say, a receiver is needed. Although there are no real details given as far as how the technology works, I get the impression that broadcast power effectively turns the world into a gigantic "river" of energy that can be tapped with appropriate converters. In effect, the receiver is the "water wheel," turning "wild" energy back into useful energy.

Now, of course, how big a receiver are we talking about? Again, no details are provided. Perhaps it would be easiest to suggest the receiver is the same size as a power cell would be. The machines of Gernsback need "batteries," but these batteries NEVER run out.

Yes, I'm making this up as I go along.

For the megawatts needed to employ Draw Power...you might need a pretty big receiver. And you want it to be mobile. Maybe something you can wear and walk around in.

Wait! I've got it! What you need is...a receiver-equipped mecha. :)

Mark

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Which suggests an interesting idea for a new spell: Phantom Outlet. Creates an outlet from a power source than an appropriate machine can tap, or it can be used to cast Draw Power on safely. Conduct Power would be a prereq, obviously.

It's a nice idea for a Tech. spell. Should the prereq relationship be the other way around, though? Or maybe separate branches off of Seek Power? That Conduct does the job already, w/o requiring an outlet, makes it look like it would be the more advanced spell.