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01-01-2013, 11:27 AM | #1 |
Join Date: May 2012
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Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining
Let's say you kill a monster worth 4 treasures as a cleric, with help, and hoard being the 2nd card in the discard pile.
Cleric draws the first card in the discard, 2nd card in the discard, draws 3 more face up and daisy chains by using the cleric ability and hoard to get a potential 3x3+1 treasures for the first in discard and getting hoard a bunch of times. What is it that makes this illegal? |
01-01-2013, 12:11 PM | #2 | |
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Brazil
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Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining
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Then there would be the division of Treasure, as per the original agreement with the helper. Only then Hoard would be activated.
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Igor Toscano MiB: #1602 |
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01-01-2013, 12:57 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining
Short Answer: Hoard! isn't discarded until after the complete, original Treasure draw occurs (see the quoted FAQ entry below).
Long Answer: While you are correct that Hoard! cannot be chained, you're wrong on when it activates, bonetm. It does activate as soon as it is drawn, absolutely immediately, and anything drawn by it becomes part of the Treasure set before distribution. The correct timing description is as follows. Let's continue with the example that the monster had 4 Treasures and Hoard! was the second card in the pile.
Note that Hoard! is not discarded until after all the other effects occur. It is impossible to chain it twice in the same Treasure draw. This is also covered by an FAQ entry: Quote:
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My unofficial, but comprehensive Flowcharts: Munchkin: A4 Letter; Munchkin Quest: A4 Letter Rules Checklist for all Munchkin sets: A4 Letter. Last edited by Clipper; 01-01-2013 at 03:18 PM. |
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01-01-2013, 01:49 PM | #4 |
Munchkin Line Editor
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining
Just to be absolutely accurate: all cards drawn as part of a Treasure draw are considered to be drawn simultaneously, even if some are being resurrected and others drawn from the deck. If you're drawing five Treasures and Hoard! is the first card you pull up, draw the other four Treasures and THEN deal with Hoard!'s effects.
And yes, as the FAQ says, you don't discard Hoard! until after you draw the three Treasures it gives you.
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Andrew Hackard, Munchkin Line Editor If you have a question that isn't getting answered, we have a thread for that. Let people like what they like. Don't be a gamer hater. #PlayMunchkin on social media: Twitter || Facebook || Instagram || YouTube Follow us on Kickstarter: Steve Jackson Games and Warehouse 23 |
01-01-2013, 03:23 PM | #5 |
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining
Thanks very much for the clarification Andrew. I've edited the step-by-step to reflect what you stated. That does make more sense and resolves a few other issues with timing involved with this card's interaction with others.
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01-01-2013, 04:14 PM | #6 |
Munchkin Line Editor
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining
That's one reason I discourage "I'll take the first Treasure drawn" deals where Clerics are involved. If I'm a Cleric and I decide to use Resurrection to take the top discard, is that the first or fourth Treasure I've drawn?
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Andrew Hackard, Munchkin Line Editor If you have a question that isn't getting answered, we have a thread for that. Let people like what they like. Don't be a gamer hater. #PlayMunchkin on social media: Twitter || Facebook || Instagram || YouTube Follow us on Kickstarter: Steve Jackson Games and Warehouse 23 |
06-25-2013, 03:11 AM | #7 | ||
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining
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Code:
Q. What if I have to choose between cards and one of those is Hoard? A. If a card makes you draw and choose between cards, and Hoard is one of those you have to choose between, you do not play Hoard until you choose it as the card to keep. Then it is played immediately. Quote:
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06-25-2013, 04:04 AM | #8 |
Munchkin Line Editor
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining
kotya, the specific question about "choosing" Hoard! is when you're using the Bardic Luck ability -- in that case, it's possible that Hoard! would never technically be drawn as Treasure, going straight from the deck to the discard pile without activating.
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Andrew Hackard, Munchkin Line Editor If you have a question that isn't getting answered, we have a thread for that. Let people like what they like. Don't be a gamer hater. #PlayMunchkin on social media: Twitter || Facebook || Instagram || YouTube Follow us on Kickstarter: Steve Jackson Games and Warehouse 23 |
06-25-2013, 06:23 AM | #9 |
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Re: Cleric and hoard daisy-chaining
Yes, I've made the same mistake in the past by misreading that FAQ entry myself.
As for why you have the separate stack of discards, that's because all such card effects have been ruled to be handled that way on the forums. If you take Cleric literally, then you could draw cards from the discards and then discard the cards you just drew as payment, but that is not allowed as the cards are not yet deemed to have entered your hand until the card resolves either, in the same way that the cards you discard don't enter the discard pile until the card resolves. The only card I am aware of that breaks this trend and doesn't use the effective limbo area for cards you draw and discard is the Duck of Many Things, and that's because it very specifically declares that each action of the card is to resolve in order. |
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