Spear vs Sword

[hal]

Hello Folks,
Came across this just recently and thought to myself "Bet there would be a few who'd LOVE to see this and try to relate it to GURPS...

Enjoy

Hal

[DanHoward]

Most of the reasons why spears are better than swords relate to things like technique, formation fighting, and reach. Many RPGs don't have the mechanics to take them into account. GURPS does a better job than most.

[AlexanderHowl]

It makes sense. From the way that the spearmen were defending, I think that giving two-handed spear use a +2 Parry would make sense. I actually think that you could justify giving the spearmen the same multiple parry and retreat bonus as fencers, though I am ambivalent on that idea.

[DanHoward]

You should probably look at G: Martial Arts before inventing house rules. Most of the above is covered there and it was pretty thoroughly playtested.

[Anthony]

Mostly in GURPS this is a case of "superior reach is good". The normal situation (assuming reach 2 spear, reach 1 sword) is:
For the Swordsman

1. 3 yards apart: to attack, the swordsman must make an all-out, committed, or move and attack. The spearman can respond by a retreating defense, followed by an attack and move on his turn, leaving them 3 yards apart.
2. 2 yards apart: to attack, the swordsman must move and attack. The spearman can respond with a retreating defense, followed by attack and step or step and wait, leaving them 3 yards apart.
3. 1 yard apart: the swordsman can attack and, if the spearman retreats, move forward. However, the spearman can still move back on his turn, winding up 2 hexes apart.

For the Spearman

1. 3 yards apart: to attack, the spearman must step and attack. Final separation is 2 yards, or 3 yards if the swordsman retreats, which he probably doesn't want to do because 3 yards is bad for him.
2. 2 yards apart: the spearman may either attack and step (if the swordsman retreats he likely doesn't use his step), or step back and wait. Final separation is 3 yards.
3. 1 yard apart: the spearman wants to step and attack. Final separation is 2 yards, or 3 yards if the swordsman retreats, which he probably doesn't want to do.

With a +3 retreat bonus, this is horrific advantage. With a +1, it's still significant.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Mostly in GURPS this is a case of "superior reach is good".

That and most of those swordsmen didn't know what they were doing.

[hal]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

That and most of those swordsmen didn't know what they were doing.

As the video commentators made plain, some of those who were involved in the combats were inexperienced spearmen as well.

It is times like this when I am so tempted to run a "gladiatorial combat" via Fantasy Grounds. Contestants would have to build 118 point character (75% of 150 points plus 5 quirk points). Equipment purchases can be no more than 20% starting wealth for the wealth advantage level taken. Each participant would create two characters - one who uses spear - the other, "Swords an others" (axes, hatchets, shortswords, etc).

First round of combat using all relevant rules from GURPS BASIC SET CAMPAIGNS and GURPS MARTIAL ARTS would involve simple spear vs sword only.

Then Spear vs buckler and sword
Then spear vs Shield and Sword

If a player decides to use a "Feint", he whispers to the GM "Feint" and the GM simply states "Attacker Attacks..."
and after a suitable roll for the feint itself, tracks what the penalty is against the defense of the defender (without telling them!). Now the combats will unfold without the issues surrounding "how to handle feints".

But, I largely suspect there wouldn't be sufficient interest in it. :(

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

That and most of those swordsmen didn't know what they were doing.

Wouldn't someone in real life who could afford the quality of ironmongery to have eighteen inches of metal that would not shatter because of a minor flaw, be able to afford a decent trainer too?

[Lord Azagthoth]

Most important for spear fighter is that you learn techniques so you don;t need a Ready manuever to siwtch the Reach.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by hal

It is times like this when I am so tempted to run a "gladiatorial combat" via Fantasy Grounds.

There's a PbP arena game at RPoL...

http://rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=72321&date=1545073157