Does Trained by a Master include shields?

[Boge]

Half penalty for rapid strikes and multiple parries for all weapon and unarmed skills.

Does that include shields? Do I get half penalty to block a second time? Do I get half penalty to rapid strike with a shield bash?

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Boge

Half penalty for rapid strikes and multiple parries for all weapon and unarmed skills.

Does that include shields? Do I get half penalty to block a second time? Do I get half penalty to rapid strike with a shield bash?

It should as you can attack with a shield per the skill of that name.

[Donny Brook]

IIRC you can only Block once per turn.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Boge

Half penalty for rapid strikes and multiple parries for all weapon and unarmed skills.

Does that include shields? Do I get half penalty to block a second time? Do I get half penalty to rapid strike with a shield bash?

Yes, You can't even try, and Yes as the rules are written. Yeah, it's kind of confusing, the rules for multiple attacks, multiple parries, U parry, when stuff becomes unready etc. often seem a bit inconsistent, and changing some of them between 3e and 4e didn't help as much as it should have. But sure, if you are using some rule variant that lets you attempt multiple blocks, I don't see any reason to treat shield blocks any differently from any other parry with something equally awkward to swing around.

[Kelly Pedersen]

As an optional rule, Martial Arts allows multiple blocks (p. 123) at a penalty, which Weapon Master that includes a shield does reduce.

[Boge]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

As an optional rule, Martial Arts allows multiple blocks (p. 123) at a penalty, which Weapon Master that includes a shield does reduce.

What about Trained by a Master? And would you say a rapid strike with a shield would be reduced by half?

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Boge

What about Trained by a Master? And would you say a rapid strike with a shield would be reduced by half?

All the references to Multiple Blocks say Weapons Master, and don't mention Trained by a Master, so I'd say TBAM doesn't give the benefits there. However, a shield bash is an attack, and Trained by a Master does generally reduce Rapid Strike penalties for all attacks, so I'd say that applies.

[Colarmel]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

All the references to Multiple Blocks say Weapons Master, and don't mention Trained by a Master, so I'd say TBAM doesn't give the benefits there. However, a shield bash is an attack, and Trained by a Master does generally reduce Rapid Strike penalties for all attacks, so I'd say that applies.

TBaM in every other respect does everything WM does except:

Damage Bonus
Improved Defaults


So for simplicity, I wouldn't add Iterative Blocks with shields and cloaks. I'd just say TBaM covers it. But that's a GM question.