Enchanters point values

oma · 06-18-2010, 06:30 PM

I am looking at Magic and wondering about Enchanters.

1. Does a journeyman enchanter have to have a 15 skill with a spell to help in Q&D enchanting?
1a. Same question for Slow & Sure (S&S).

Assuming a 100pt NPC with a (this guy is 109pts total, no contacts, allies, favors. All mechanic no fluff)

ST 9
DX 10
IQ 14
HT 10
FT 10
HP 9

Give him (Magery 3 (35), Language-Native, Language-Draconic (4), Wealth-Comfortable (10), 30 points in disadvantages

Skills-----Thaumatology (1), Research (1), Staff (1),

Spells---13 spells from 10 different colleges gives him the prereqs to take Enchant. These to me would all be the BASIC spells that enchanters teach to their students. The quickest way to prepare them to learn enchant and still be useful to a wizard. Sort of like the Enchanter pkg at college.

Then you can start thinking about various other chains of spells to allow them to enchant items. Just accuracy requires 5 air spells, pussiance 5 earth spells. Etc. It seems that I would have to make him at LEAST 120-150pts to be a viable use as an enchanter in anything more than one type of item.

Then if you say that a MASTER enchanter has skill 20 with his enchant, he also needs a skill 20 with any spell that he wishes to enchant because it uses the LOWER of his skill with Enchant OR the spell being enchanted. So to get a wide range of spells at lvl 20 you will need to be at least a 200pt NPC.

Now, for you number fiends, how likely is it that there are 200pt NPCs running around? Or am I just being dense here?

It seems to me that Every Enchanters circle will be VERY specialized in just a few different enchantments. If that is the case, then are there even ENOUGH casters with those qualities to justify a robust magic trade?

In my game I see journeymen as COMFORTABLE and Masters as WEALTHY. I think it fits. Otherwise you would probably put your 200pt of ability into something else I think.

All this assumes VERY focused individuals. The driven, no eyes for anything else. Now how likely is it that you find enchanters that know ANYTHING else. They just don't have the points for it.

Am I crazy or is enchanting as a business WAY more rare than the book makes it seem.

Fred Brackin · 06-18-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oma

I am looking at Magic and wondering about Enchanters.

1. Does a journeyman enchanter have to have a 15 skill with a spell to help in Q&D enchanting?
1a. Same question for Slow & Sure (S&S).

Now, for you number fiends, how likely is it that there are 200pt NPCs running around?

1. Yes.
1a, Yes.

200 pt NPCs ? Sure, why not. There are all sorts of real people in the real world who can't be built on 200 pts even leaving out Social Advantages.

Like great athletes who become Supreme Court justices or polymath geniuses with tons of patents or Special Ops or graduates of the Peking Opera School like Jackie Chan.

Wizard School might count as highly intensive training equal to anything in the real world.

Then there's the Halt Aging spell. Wizards could have a _long_ time to develop their skills.

munin · 06-18-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oma

1. Does a journeyman enchanter have to have a 15 skill with a spell to help in Q&D enchanting?
1a. Same question for Slow & Sure (S&S).

Minimum effective skill 15 with both the Enchant spell and the spell to be enchanted for both caster and assistants (p. M16).

Quote:

Originally Posted by oma

... It seems that I would have to make him at LEAST 120-150pts to be a viable use as an enchanter...

Good call. The 125-point Enchanter template in GURPS Fantasy (p. 119) has only 6 points in an enchantment package (in addition to Enchant and some other useful spells).

Quote:

Originally Posted by oma

In my game I see journeymen as COMFORTABLE and Masters as WEALTHY. I think it fits.

That makes sense to me too, compared to the other occupational templates (such as the Armorer who has skill-14 and earns a comfortable wage).

oma · 06-18-2010, 07:41 PM

Okay, so I read fantasy Enchanter and it is pretty basic. Now read Fantasy pg 103,

Considering only IQ (and assuming Magery 0 is
common or unnecessary), every community has people
with IQ 11-12. In a common-magic setting, every village
has a hedge wizard who knows a few basic spells, and
one or two advanced ones. Every town or city has people
with IQ 13-14, so at least every small city has a professional
mage with formal training in intermediatelevel
spells. A large city, or a county, duchy, or small
country without medium or large cities, will have people
with IQ 15-16. A large country will have people with
IQ 17-18, capable of becoming enchanters or affecting
the outcome of a battle. People with IQ 19-20 will be
found somewhere in an entire world, but there will be
only a few. If the public tolerates magic, some mages
will be world-famous. In low-mana worlds, they may be
capable of making enchanted objects.
Adding levels of Magery into the calculation
improves the odds a bit. Magery is effectively a specialized
Talent for working magic; it’s reasonable to suppose,
for example, that people with IQ 14 and Magery 1
are more common than people with IQ 15, but less common
than people with IQ 14. Higher levels of Magery
are less common and won’t affect the distribution nearly
as much. Figuring Magery into the equation means
that a community that would otherwise have one mage
of a given type will now have a handful, and a community
that is marginally too small will now have one. For
example, any medium or large city would probably have
a SINGLE enchanter. (emphasis added)

It would seem that GURPS assumptions are that there are NOT that many enchanters running around. If most large cities have TWO enchanting CIRCLES, then that would seem to say that the level of magic is ULTRA high in that world.

And those two circles could be completely different in items that they enchant. In fact, unless they are all over 250pt EACH, each circle probably only can do around 5-10 different enchantments.

So based on that, it would still be difficult to find a group that could make a magic item you want. Especially if you needed multiple spells. It may take several circles in very far off places to make that happen. The actual cost of magic items is then MUCH higher than just he labor rates of enchanters.

Wow.

06-18-2010, 06:30 PM	#1
oma Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: arlington texas	Enchanters point values I am looking at Magic and wondering about Enchanters. 1. Does a journeyman enchanter have to have a 15 skill with a spell to help in Q&D enchanting? 1a. Same question for Slow & Sure (S&S). Assuming a 100pt NPC with a (this guy is 109pts total, no contacts, allies, favors. All mechanic no fluff) ST 9 DX 10 IQ 14 HT 10 FT 10 HP 9 Give him (Magery 3 (35), Language-Native, Language-Draconic (4), Wealth-Comfortable (10), 30 points in disadvantages Skills-----Thaumatology (1), Research (1), Staff (1), Spells---13 spells from 10 different colleges gives him the prereqs to take Enchant. These to me would all be the BASIC spells that enchanters teach to their students. The quickest way to prepare them to learn enchant and still be useful to a wizard. Sort of like the Enchanter pkg at college. Then you can start thinking about various other chains of spells to allow them to enchant items. Just accuracy requires 5 air spells, pussiance 5 earth spells. Etc. It seems that I would have to make him at LEAST 120-150pts to be a viable use as an enchanter in anything more than one type of item. Then if you say that a MASTER enchanter has skill 20 with his enchant, he also needs a skill 20 with any spell that he wishes to enchant because it uses the LOWER of his skill with Enchant OR the spell being enchanted. So to get a wide range of spells at lvl 20 you will need to be at least a 200pt NPC. Now, for you number fiends, how likely is it that there are 200pt NPCs running around? Or am I just being dense here? It seems to me that Every Enchanters circle will be VERY specialized in just a few different enchantments. If that is the case, then are there even ENOUGH casters with those qualities to justify a robust magic trade? In my game I see journeymen as COMFORTABLE and Masters as WEALTHY. I think it fits. Otherwise you would probably put your 200pt of ability into something else I think. All this assumes VERY focused individuals. The driven, no eyes for anything else. Now how likely is it that you find enchanters that know ANYTHING else. They just don't have the points for it. Am I crazy or is enchanting as a business WAY more rare than the book makes it seem.

06-18-2010, 07:41 PM	#4
oma Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: arlington texas	Re: Enchanters point values Okay, so I read fantasy Enchanter and it is pretty basic. Now read Fantasy pg 103, Considering only IQ (and assuming Magery 0 is common or unnecessary), every community has people with IQ 11-12. In a common-magic setting, every village has a hedge wizard who knows a few basic spells, and one or two advanced ones. Every town or city has people with IQ 13-14, so at least every small city has a professional mage with formal training in intermediatelevel spells. A large city, or a county, duchy, or small country without medium or large cities, will have people with IQ 15-16. A large country will have people with IQ 17-18, capable of becoming enchanters or affecting the outcome of a battle. People with IQ 19-20 will be found somewhere in an entire world, but there will be only a few. If the public tolerates magic, some mages will be world-famous. In low-mana worlds, they may be capable of making enchanted objects. Adding levels of Magery into the calculation improves the odds a bit. Magery is effectively a specialized Talent for working magic; it’s reasonable to suppose, for example, that people with IQ 14 and Magery 1 are more common than people with IQ 15, but less common than people with IQ 14. Higher levels of Magery are less common and won’t affect the distribution nearly as much. Figuring Magery into the equation means that a community that would otherwise have one mage of a given type will now have a handful, and a community that is marginally too small will now have one. For example, any medium or large city would probably have a SINGLE enchanter. (emphasis added) It would seem that GURPS assumptions are that there are NOT that many enchanters running around. If most large cities have TWO enchanting CIRCLES, then that would seem to say that the level of magic is ULTRA high in that world. And those two circles could be completely different in items that they enchant. In fact, unless they are all over 250pt EACH, each circle probably only can do around 5-10 different enchantments. So based on that, it would still be difficult to find a group that could make a magic item you want. Especially if you needed multiple spells. It may take several circles in very far off places to make that happen. The actual cost of magic items is then MUCH higher than just he labor rates of enchanters. Wow.