11-05-2018, 05:07 PM | #11 | |
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Göttingen, Germany
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Re: Would you like a Melee Fighting Talent?
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Maybe a more "common" issue (but being less concise) would be the raising other melee skills situation for the veteran: He already knows sword at 24 and is good at dagger and boxing and grappling etc., now wants to learn using a staff, but there are no useful defaults available. It seems not right, though, that he only starts at attribute default, what about all these generic fighting insights? ...nothing...? Witha 1 CP investment he is just a total noob, though I would expect IRL that he would totally overcome another 1 CP noob without fighting background but with same attributes. Basically that's a very good point, you're right. Though restrictions are always a tricky thing, can be quite harsh to say "your character is not experienced enough to use the feint maneuver"... Feels problematic and would also raise the question: How do you qualify? Last edited by OldSam; 11-05-2018 at 05:19 PM. |
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11-05-2018, 05:50 PM | #12 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
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Re: Would you like a Melee Fighting Talent?
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What you are talking about is Combat Reflexes. That's what that bit of abstractness is covered under the abstraction that is GURPS. Probably also a higher DX, HT, and Basic Speed. Quote:
The newb instead should take higher Basic Speed or even take a higher DX. You've exceeded human norms and are venturing into territory that GURPS isn't as good at "simulating realistically". Mr. Sword-24-Guy should have thrown some of those points around in other areas if he wants to be anything other Mr. Sword-24-Guy. But, on the upside, even if he doesn't have a sword, he resists Feints with his swording skill. Quote:
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11-05-2018, 07:18 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The former Chochenyo territory
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Re: Would you like a Melee Fighting Talent?
I've toyed with a houserule where melee weapon defaults are from your highest melee skill as if it were DX. So a DX 13 swordsman with Broadsword-18 [20] gets defaults of
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11-06-2018, 06:42 AM | #14 | |||
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Would you like a Melee Fighting Talent?
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I'm going to quibble here: Gurps default rules are generous in that they assume everyone has most defaults, and they are generous if you have high stats or skills in something else. There is nothing generous about giving a DX 11 sword-14 fighter skill 6 with an axe. Quote:
That's equivalent to making all melee weapons default off of each other. That's... a really good rule. I actually thought the game ran that way until I checked. That will go a good way to solving this problem. Quote:
a +1 to all defenses is such a flat way feels a touch underwhelming, to tell the truth. Though I agree training in a different weapon should apply more to defense than to offense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To answer the OP, I like the talent, and while the restriction is fiddly, its a good concept to prevent it from taking over the game. I have often tinkered with the concept of making a melee weapon talent, a ranged weapon talent, an unarmed combat talent, and an "athletics" talent, all at 5/level.
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11-06-2018, 07:02 AM | #15 | ||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Would you like a Melee Fighting Talent?
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Still: Some axes can thrust; they have distinct upturns on the tip of the blade. These are used basically the same way as a sword in the thrust - you bring the center of rotation in a straight line to the target, same as the sword (though the center of rotation is, of course, in a different place). The sword is dangerous its entire length; the axe, only on the sharp bits, which is usually just the blade. The axe can hook on both pull and push; pushing with the top of the axe is remarkably effective at moving a foe's shield around. Hooking with the beard (or even without it) requires good footwork, but is very effective if your foe lacks said good footwork. The top of the axe makes a small but effective parrying surface, though you have to be good and quick time-of-the-hand motions are going to be hard to defeat But by and large, moving from sword to axe is a matter of unlearning a few things (the haft? Not that dangerous), and learning a few tricks of manipulation that the axe can do but the sword can't, and that the axe is a beat slower than our swords in certain motions. It's definitely not a 6 or 8 point difference in skill level, though. Quote:
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11-06-2018, 07:51 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oklahoma City
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Re: Would you like a Melee Fighting Talent?
Interesting thought: If all melee weapons did default to each other, you could look at the average default across the board, and would effectively have a "base melee skill," which might be useful for other applications.
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11-06-2018, 08:08 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Re: Would you like a Melee Fighting Talent?
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Minus side - Players will probably stop buying other melee weapon skills. +1 to effective skill with every melee weapon including your primary one is only 4 pts, which is better than the melee combat talent advantage proposed above by the OP. Doing it with a perk might be a good compromise, to distinguish on the sheet between the monomaniac specialists and those with broad combat experience. |
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11-06-2018, 08:10 AM | #18 |
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Re: Would you like a Melee Fighting Talent?
I've actually toyed with a "Natural Warrior" advantage or talent for a while, to represent mythic-style heroes who are just naturally good with combat, and who can pick up new fighting styles and weapons more easily than the average person. I never found anything balanced/useful enough to use in a campaign - I'm looking closely at ideas here, and like what I see so far.
Maybe require "Unusual Background" as a prerequisite to the more efficient weapon skill buys? |
11-06-2018, 09:05 AM | #19 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: Would you like a Melee Fighting Talent?
There are already chains of defaults that people can develop. For example, a DX 12 character can spend 48 CP on Broadsword-24, giving them Shortsword-22 and Rapier, Saber, and Two-Handed Sword-20. If they further spend 8 CP buying Shortsword-24, they receive Jitte/Sai, Knife, and Tonfa-21 and Smallsword-20. With 56 CP, they are masters in nine melee combat skills.
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11-06-2018, 10:04 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Shoreline, WA (north of Seattle)
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Re: Would you like a Melee Fighting Talent?
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Weapon Skill [5] You have a broad understanding of melee combat. Your default for melee weapon skills is based on your highest melee weapon skill instead of your DX. I think 5 points fits the pentaphilia of GURPS and puts enough opportunity cost on the advantage that it's not an auto buy for anyone who isn't dedicated to combat (or swimming in points) - after all, for 5 points you can get five weapon skills, or spells, or... I suppose you could do something similar for ranged, call it Ballistic Skill (in a nod to WFRP), and say it reflects an understanding of rangefinding, how projectiles move, and leading a target, but the range of actual physical mechanics for ranged weapons seems a bit broader - bows, slings, throwing, guns, and beam weapons all seem more different from each other than wielding an axe compared to a staff. |
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