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Old 01-06-2018, 10:34 AM   #221
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

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Originally Posted by marctabyanan View Post
Folks, I would offer up the bestiary I have already put on my fan site: https://inthelabyrinth.org/column/bestiary/. I posted all of the ITL creatures, plus some more that I found or converted. Right now I just have the text from ITL for those monsters. My intent was to eventually redo all of that text with better descriptions--ecology, tactics, even useful parts of their bodies, etc. Unfortunately, that is a larger task that I have not had time to do yet...

Big Note: This was all before any of this happened. After SJG goes through the process of determining what content can be posted on fan sites, I will willingly take down/leave up whatever is cool.
Something to be mindful of: the online beastiary cited above reproduces material from ITL word for word. I don't know anything about the details of relevant IP laws, but I'm pretty sure this crosses some sort of line.

I have hundreds of pages of monsters, spells, alternate rules, gear, etc. and have previously distributed them in pdf form to a few interested people, but I won't do so any more because all my new material is mixed up with original text from various old books of TFT in a huge, IP-violating jumble.

It will take me a few weeks to disentangle these so that the materials I post or otherwise distribute are 100% new content. And even then I think it is probably smart to run things past the author, both as a courtesy and so that you have a chance to learn about any changes that make your materials out dated before you go to the bother of distributing them. The example of the OSR community shows that fan-produced and third-party materials can greatly energize a game line so we should all get our creative juices flowing. But this would be exactly the wrong time to do that in ways that mess with the author's ability to formulate, produce and sell the core products.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:21 AM   #222
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

Much as I'd love an official bestiary (and I do hope we get one Steve!), one of the joys of TFT is how easy it is to create or adapt monsters for yourself.

Just assign ST/DX/IN/MA/Armour/Damage plus any special abilities and away you go. The only system easier was Tunnels and Trolls where you only assigned one value (MR).
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:19 PM   #223
JLV
 
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Something to be mindful of: the online beastiary cited above reproduces material from ITL word for word. I don't know anything about the details of relevant IP laws, but I'm pretty sure this crosses some sort of line.

I have hundreds of pages of monsters, spells, alternate rules, gear, etc. and have previously distributed them in pdf form to a few interested people, but I won't do so any more because all my new material is mixed up with original text from various old books of TFT in a huge, IP-violating jumble.

It will take me a few weeks to disentangle these so that the materials I post or otherwise distribute are 100% new content. And even then I think it is probably smart to run things past the author, both as a courtesy and so that you have a chance to learn about any changes that make your materials out dated before you go to the bother of distributing them. The example of the OSR community shows that fan-produced and third-party materials can greatly energize a game line so we should all get our creative juices flowing. But this would be exactly the wrong time to do that in ways that mess with the author's ability to formulate, produce and sell the core products.
Yeah, I think as long as Steve (the IP owner) is okay with it, it's not a big deal. However, two points:

1) Marko was posting all this stuff for the convenience of modern players using a system that had been "dead" for over three decades when he put it up.

2) Now that the system is going to be "live" again, he won't NEED to publish the stuff already in the books, and his Bestiary will more than likely morph into "here's some cool old monsters from the original book that didn't make it into version 2 (I'm thinking of the Hymenopterans, here, possibly), and some additional beasts, dinosaurs, creepy-crawlies, etc. that people have come up with."

Which solves all those problems you talk about rather neatly. I might also point out that it's still so incredibly early in this process that I frankly imagine Steve hasn't really had the time to sit down and think about all of this, much less discuss what he OUGHT to do legally speaking with his lawyers (he needs to ensure he isn't compromising his copyright by whatever decisions he makes regarding fan sites, and "fair use" policies). Then Marko would need to be given some time to actually make the changes in his web page, etc...

In short, while talking about all of this is important, the REALLY important discussion has to happen between Steve and Marko, and I rather suspect Steve isn't really ready for an in-depth talk about the details yet (though he probably has some ideas about what he'd LIKE to do).
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Old 01-06-2018, 03:45 PM   #224
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
Much as I'd love an official bestiary (and I do hope we get one Steve!), one of the joys of TFT is how easy it is to create or adapt monsters for yourself.

Just assign ST/DX/IN/MA/Armour/Damage plus any special abilities and away you go. The only system easier was Tunnels and Trolls where you only assigned one value (MR).
I always add something to my T&T monsters. I was just looking over my bestiary ("Beasties, Haunts, and Boojums") wondering how hard it would be to adapt it to TFT. Sample:

Trencher Spirit
Monster Rating: 60 / 120 / 240
Where Encountered: Isolated inns and homesteads
Number Encountered: Just one
Movement: Slow
Specials: Immune to normal weapons.

Followed by 258 words of description, much of it behavioral. This is a "haunt," a supernatural creature designed as much to set a mood as to be a tough opponent.

I know it is WAY early for SJGames to look at submissions but gears are turning in my head . . .
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Old 01-06-2018, 05:19 PM   #225
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

Just a quick request: purple bellbottoms are okay, but could we not have a return of the purple Speedo?
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Old 01-06-2018, 07:23 PM   #226
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

Regarding the present and future of online resources, I'd venture that the SJ Games Online Policy now applies to TFT as well. I did a quick review and tweak to our Facebook TFT Group last week to make certain we had no infringing material, and that a notice/disclaimer was in place.
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:15 PM   #227
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

I'll toss in another couple of unasked for pieces of advice.

Meaningful characters make stories. Compelling stories sell fictional settings. The other crucial thing to sell RPGs in fictional settings is a really good game system synergistic with said setting. You already have that last thing. So, this time around, try to infuse Cidri with compelling narratives.

Plus also: You already have a game line that is a toolbox (GURPS). So TFT, being single-genre, is setting-centric.

So... I'd tap somebody like Corey Doctorow, Ken Hite, or some other talented writer willing to crank out some classic Fantasy and weave some powerful narrative IP around Cidri. That would give the product line real legs. Budget constraints of course, dictate feasibility. But do you want to resurrect TFT for a short game or a long one?
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:30 PM   #228
JLV
 
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

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Originally Posted by Groknard View Post
Regarding the present and future of online resources, I'd venture that the SJ Games Online Policy now applies to TFT as well. I did a quick review and tweak to our Facebook TFT Group last week to make certain we had no infringing material, and that a notice/disclaimer was in place.
Thank you for that link! I was unaware there even WAS a policy (because I don't personally publish fan stuff), but now I am properly informed. I imagine there are still questions regarding details, but that at least provides an easily understood basis for future reference! Much appreciated.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:39 PM   #229
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

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Originally Posted by DeDiceManCometh View Post
I'll toss in another couple of unasked for pieces of advice.

Meaningful characters make stories. Compelling stories sell fictional settings. The other crucial thing to sell RPGs in fictional settings is a really good game system synergistic with said setting. You already have that last thing. So, this time around, try to infuse Cidri with compelling narratives.

Plus also: You already have a game line that is a toolbox (GURPS). So TFT, being single-genre, is setting-centric.

So... I'd tap somebody like Corey Doctorow, Ken Hite, or some other talented writer willing to crank out some classic Fantasy and weave some powerful narrative IP around Cidri. That would give the product line real legs. Budget constraints of course, dictate feasibility. But do you want to resurrect TFT for a short game or a long one?
THIS! The game system has held up extremely well overall for forty years, even without the attention of the actual designer (which makes it pretty darn robust, in my mind); so the foundation is well in place. And TFT is clearly a niche product compared with GURPS. Superior and compelling narrative for the game would be the piece that really would make TFT beyond exceptional, and which all the myriad GURPS setting books soundly prove to be an area of real expertise for SJG.
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:14 AM   #230
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Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home

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Originally Posted by DeDiceManCometh View Post
Plus also: You already have a game line that is a toolbox (GURPS). So TFT, being single-genre, is setting-centric.
I think this is an important statement to consider. I see no compelling reason to use TFT as the basis of a science fiction, western or any other type of game. GURPS is already a very nice multi genre toolbox, I don't think TFT needs to be that as well. I believe this is what will separate the two games on the store shelves.

Please Keep TFT grounded in fantasy.
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