CER or equivalent combat rating

[FeiLin]

I uploaded the file I made (.ods) to calculate the CER to this address:
http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...11784142483064

I got it to work accurately with the example Lady Ion, and then I tried with the Boneflower and Acid Spider as well.

Unfortunately, it seems to be off a bit off, so if anyone wanna improve upon it, feel free to and let me know!

[Killswich]

Originally Posted by FeiLin

I uploaded the file I made (.ods) to calculate the CER to this address:
http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...11784142483064

I got it to work accurately with the example Lady Ion, and then I tried with the Boneflower and Acid Spider as well.

Unfortunately, it seems to be off a bit off, so if anyone wanna improve upon it, feel free to and let me know!

Does anyone has this file? The link is down :(

[FeiLin]

Try this one:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uj64jhasxe...lator.ods?dl=0

[seycyrus]

Any idea how this compares to the one on the web?

http://www.gurpscalculator.com

I'm curious to know if calculated values differ.

[FeiLin]

Well, the one I did you can see each line and the calculation for it. I have no idea how the website does the calculation.

If you have any suggestions, find any errors, or make any modifications, feel free to post them here

[Michael Thayne]

Do people have a "typical PC CER" they use for designing encounters before knowing party composition? I just worked through some examples using 250 point templates in Adventurers, and got everything from answers in the 20s for non-combat casters to answers in the 60s or even low 70s for a Knight aggressively optimized with Weapon Master and a huge pile of ST. Maybe CER 40 per PC might be a safe assumption? 35 if you're cautious about not killing PCs? Can anyone speak from experience?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Do people have a "typical PC CER" they use for designing encounters before knowing party composition? I just worked through some examples using 250 point templates in Adventurers, and got everything from answers in the 20s for non-combat casters to answers in the 60s or even low 70s for a Knight aggressively optimized with Weapon Master and a huge pile of ST. Maybe CER 40 per PC might be a safe assumption? 35 if you're cautious about not killing PCs? Can anyone speak from experience?

I will tell you as the guy who designed it I went through dozens of permutations to find a "starting out" CER for a typical party. I could not then do it with the time I had (I wrote, revised, edited, and playtested with ten brave souls "It's a Threat!" in 10 days). I can tell you how you can do it though (or at least my initial plan): Take every basic template (those that appear in DF1) and every race (those that appear in DF3) and then apply the various loadouts (from DF13) to each combination. If you can do that - and it's a huge ask for anyone much less of myself and ten others 3 days to deadline - you'll get your starting basic party CER. And if you do take on such a thing (anyone) drop me a DM or email for any questions you might have. I'll eventually need such data if I ever write "GURPS Dungeon Fantasy: Dungeoncraft" (a theoretical book combining my various "It's a X" articles - including the two I never published - "It's an Artifact!" and "It's a Dungeon!"

IF you don't want to do that use Kyle Norton aka Zuljita's method which is I believe CER 35 or 40 per PC.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I will tell you as the guy who designed it I went through dozens of permutations to find a "starting out" CER for a typical party. I could not then do it with the time I had (I wrote, revised, edited, and playtested with ten brave souls "It's a Threat!" in 10 days). I can tell you how you can do it though (or at least my initial plan): Take every basic template (those that appear in DF1) and every race (those that appear in DF3) and then apply the various loadouts (from DF13) to each combination. If you can do that - and it's a huge ask for anyone much less of myself and ten others 3 days to deadline - you'll get your starting basic party CER. And if you do take on such a thing (anyone) drop me a DM or email for any questions you might have. I'll eventually need such data if I ever write "GURPS Dungeon Fantasy: Dungeoncraft" (a theoretical book combining my various "It's a X" articles - including the two I never published - "It's an Artifact!" and "It's a Dungeon!"

IF you don't want to do that use Kyle Norton aka Zuljita's method which is I believe CER 35 or 40 per PC.

Sounds like Zuljita independently came to the same conclusion I did, which is reassuring.

The exhaustive combinatoric process seems excessive. As an experiment, I tried creating a party of the sort that might be created by a group of stereotypical RPG players new to GURPS specifically, and in my scenario they mostly end up creating characters in the 30-35 CER range, except that the "martial" templates naturally lend themselves to higher CERs, so it balances out to an average CER of maybe 35. (Really, with the martial classes you can get CERs in the 50s without really trying, and even an actively anti-optimized Knight can end up with a CER of 40).

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

Sounds like Zuljita independently came to the same conclusion I did, which is reassuring.

The exhaustive combinatoric process seems excessive. As an experiment, I tried creating a party of the sort that might be created by a group of stereotypical RPG players new to GURPS specifically, and in my scenario they mostly end up creating characters in the 30-35 CER range, except that the "martial" templates naturally lend themselves to higher CERs, so it balances out to an average CER of maybe 35. (Really, with the martial classes you can get CERs in the 50s without really trying, and even an actively anti-optimized Knight can end up with a CER of 40).

It was something I wanted to do but didn't have time or space, like I wanted to create a full list of what spells gave what CER bonuses and when it was important. You can easily go with your average, but it's a guesstimate (and I've used it before myself) and that's it.

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

It was something I wanted to do but didn't have time or space, like I wanted to create a full list of what spells gave what CER bonuses and when it was important. You can easily go with your average, but it's a guesstimate (and I've used it before myself) and that's it.

The return on effort for the exhaustive approach seems pretty small. Especially given that the difference in CER between loadoutsis small in most cases, AFAICT. Advantage and spell will often matter more. And it doesn't really capture typical player decisions in character creation, which is why I'm curious about real world data.