GURPS as an MMO Engine

[Refplace]

Heres something to consider.
We can hope for a MMO like WOW or EQ but to be honest I think GURPS is too complicated to be run without a GM as was stated earlier. A lot of things can be done to minimize that need, especially world design. However then were limiting ourselves to the options built not just by a GM but one with a desire and ability to work on a Developers pack.
Also I think the may be too complicated to attract mainstream audiences, at least without a lot of advertising and word of mouth.

Another option is online assistants like chat software with some options like mapping, dice rolling, sorting by initive ranking (Basic Speed, ETS, stuff like that) and other stuff.
Build this web based where you can list the GMs and something about thier worlds and game times then players can signup.
Thats not very hard (I could do it all in a few months while keeping the day job.) and not too terribly expensive to run either.
That would mean we have quite a few worlds and groups to test and store logs on which could later be used for data towards a MMO if that was desired.
Then you build the MMO towards what was most popular and have a lot of the design needs mapped out.

thoughts?

Addendum.
Add a record of the charecter separate from each game so it can be taken to others if the game folds or its a shared world. Youll want to log the worlds and dates its been in of course.

[Tyneras]

I must say that one of the nice things about GURPS is that it scales well. Really well. I remember one time my friends and I decided to model the Death Star blowing up Alderran(sp?) using the explosive rules and the planet as a homogenous ball of rock. If I remember right, even at planetary destruction level, the real life vs game results were less than an order of magnetude off. Of course, the results are probably a lot wonkier when you have objects with complex structures involved.

[Gigermann]

Originally Posted by Molokh

These two are different systems. And Fallout is turn-based anyway.

My point was, since Fallout was originally to be a GURPS-powered game (Alas, that it fell through!), it is not only feasible but can work well. For that matter, D&D is also turn-based, but works well enough in a real-time environment.

That being said…
The real issue with an MMO, or any other game for that matter, is not the ruleset that drives it under-the-hood, but the overall gameplay, and the "writing" of it—the world, the interactions, the story-structure, etc. The best game mechanics won't make up for a boring game. I personally despise EQ/WoW/etc.-types. Can't really say why. I surely hope SJG (or anyone else, for that matter) could do better.

SJG doesn't have a great many IPs to work with. My personal favorite, and the best-suited for an MMO, IMHO, would be Autoduel. (I know what you're thinking…"What about Auto Assault? See the above paragraph—AA was just "Auto-Quest," in the end. Nothing innovative.) IST, and maybe In Nomine might be other good fits. Historical-types (like the Old West MMO they were trying for) can work, but I personally don't think that's the best that SJG could offer. Ultimately, though, the IP used to set the game is irrelevant unless the gameplay, itself, can be innovative enough to set it apart from the myriad EQ-clones that currently exist.

My $.02

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Gigermann

That being said…
The real issue with an MMO, or any other game for that matter, is not the ruleset that drives it under-the-hood, but the overall gameplay, and the "writing" of it—the world, the interactions, the story-structure, etc. The best game mechanics won't make up for a boring game. I personally despise EQ/WoW/etc.-types. Can't really say why. I surely hope SJG (or anyone else, for that matter) could do better.

SJG doesn't have a great many IPs to work with. My personal favorite, and the best-suited for an MMO, IMHO, would be Autoduel.

My $.02

The ruleset and its implementation have a great deal of effect on gameplay and its enjoyment.
Different classes or abilities and how they all work together is something that can easily kill a game or enhance it significantly.
As for the background and innovatio of the world that is a separate issue that can also kill a game or enhance it.
Lots of ways to fail, fewer ways to succeed but you have to gt the combination right.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Gigermann

My point was, since Fallout was originally to be a GURPS-powered game (Alas, that it fell through!), it is not only feasible but can work well. For that matter, D&D is also turn-based, but works well enough in a real-time environment.

Fallout wasn't a MMORPG.[/QUOTE]D&D is an interesting beast which might fit, mostly because its last edition mimics CRPGs (which often mimicked 2e/3e, but in semi-realtime). But the fact about Deceptive Attack is that:

• It should be used at different levels depending on your current (modified) skill level and the enemy's defence level.
• MMORPGs rely on a multitude of 'quick tabs', number keys etc., and DA's flexibility doesn't fit well.

I actually tried to implement dynamic shifting of values between defense, offense, speed and power in my project. Turns out it's more practical to just allow building 'styles', which serve as presets of these values.

[The Benj]

Originally Posted by Molokh

I actually tried to implement dynamic shifting of values between defense, offense, speed and power in my project. Turns out it's more practical to just allow building 'styles', which serve as presets of these values.

Seems like a reasonable compromise. Honestly though, I really don't think GURPS' level of detail will work well in realtime.

[RedMattis]

Originally Posted by The Benj

Seems like a reasonable compromise. Honestly though, I really don't think GURPS' level of detail will work well in realtime.

I believe so too. I think a stop-watch turned based system would work better. In other words, turn-based working just like GURPS, but you have a time limit on picking your action.

This along with quick-buttons/macros, and the option to adjust the time the users have to decide their actions could make for a rather fast paced game even when a fight starts.

...still suffers from the 50 NPCs running around in the background of the fight problem like in Fallout if they are alerted, but by not showing actions out of the players line of sight/detection this shouldn't slow down the gameplay much.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Molokh

Also, the 3d6 system, while very easy to use on tabletops, is inappropriate for MMORPGs.

Huh; I'd say that a normal distribution system is ideal for an MMO, and 3d6 is about as close to a normal distribution (with a mean of 10.5 and a standard deviation of, IIRC, 2.97) as you can get with dice.

[Seamonster]

It seems to me, the biggest problem here is the desire to stuff GURPS into the EQ/WoW box. How is this done without perverting the system beyond recognition?

The reason we love GURPS is bigger than DYI, flexibility, realism, detail, credibility, generic, and universal. GURPS is its own system. Beautiful, and unique. In a market of RPG systems that simulate video and board game culture more than history and physics, GURPS stands out. It does not bite at the heels of mongrels like modern-day D&D - to do so would end the system we love.

If a GURPS CRPG/MMO can work it must work on GURPS terms, not by some bastardized version of WoW. What this means is reinventing the wheel (i.e., a GURPS MMO wouldn't even classify as an MMO, because it would respond so much differently). This takes more than vision - it takes marketing, and lots of it. Without ample support, and financial gain, a project like this will most likely never see the light of day.

The positive side of this, for me at least, is that I don't play video games to play GURPS. By the same coin, I don't play GURPS to play video games. The two are mutually exclusive, by the current inventions. I am excited by the ideas of my fellow GURPsers, but I remain completely satisfied playing GURPS the old fashioned way...

...with friends and family, dice and paper.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by cmdicely

Huh; I'd say that a normal distribution system is ideal for an MMO, and 3d6 is about as close to a normal distribution (with a mean of 10.5 and a standard deviation of, IIRC, 2.97) as you can get with dice.

A nonlinear effect of modifiers will alienate newbies and casuals, leaving only hardcore geeks. MMOs are better server by a flat percentile chance 'curve', which is easy to understand, with bonuses easy too. Even more complicated ones should still be linear - people just don't understand probability/statistics all that easily.