12-03-2022, 01:04 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Re: Heavy AV Rifle... abuse?
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Passengers in open-top vehicles can be targeted individually (at -5 to hit) and so you need the counter to trace LOF to them. I cannot find in the compendium (or elsewhere) if it explicitly states that all cargo space in pickup is in the bed and therefore exposed, but anyone riding in the bed would be and they therefore need to be represented by a counter. Specifying where they sit was more a matter of putting their counters on the pickup counter to start with, but as they kept falling off we decided to just write it down. and target off the relevant position on the pickup counter instead. You may fit 11 people in the bed of a pickup, but only if you stack them like cordwood :) Even if you did decide that 11 people in the bed was credible, you would still have to specify their location to determine fire arcs. |
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12-03-2022, 01:15 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Re: Heavy AV Rifle... abuse?
Sunroof.
I confused myself. Sunroofs allow a passenger or gunner a 360 firing arc, convertible hardtop (and by extension cars with no top armour) allow 360 fire for ALL crew (with the exception of the driver who can't fire forward). I don't see anything preventing you having multiple sunroofs though and even the limitation on a single passenger is not explicit, "a passenger" is not always synonymous with "a single passenger". |
12-03-2022, 02:32 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Re: Heavy AV Rifle... abuse?
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INS4D beater by Swordtart: Compact; Standard chassis; Heavy suspension; Medium PP; 4 Hvy Duty tires. Driver; Gunner. Rocket Launcher w/10xStandard. 20 pts. Metal and 46 pts. Plastic. (F: 5/10 R: 5/10 L: 5/10 B: 5/10 T: 0/3 U: 0/3) Cost: $4,998, Wgt: 3,586, HC: 3, Top Speed: 100, Accel: 5. The above is hardly the last word in optimised design but with a dedicated gunner even the painfully inaccurate RL will come knocking on the door in fairly short order at arena ranges. It can shrug off a lot of the fire from the HAVR (minimum 2 even if you roll maximum damage, but realistically probably 4-5) per fire arc. On the other hand 6 points of metal on average won't protect against a 2D weapon, and if I roll max then it will be game over for your vehicle as pretty much everything in a subcompact is a one hit and it's dead proposition. I am sure other people could come up with something far better. I can only assume it came down to the skill and care of the drivers (or lack of it) rather than any specific advantage of the design (and we can only discuss the design here as performance on the day is so variable). |
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12-03-2022, 02:46 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Re: Heavy AV Rifle... abuse?
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When it started turning to allow its side weapons to bear (and so its hubs could protect the almost depleted tires), the bed riders simply pulled up the tailgate, ducked back down and were able to benefit from the rear armour of the pickup as it hared off down a side road (laying more mines as it went). Had the Rig continued they would have found themselves in the same situation a few turns later and probably would have been mobility killed (and then swarmed by infantry who could then dictate their own attack vector). They decided instead to turn around and go another way. It cost them thousands in repairs and only fast talking prevented them from missing out on the delivery bonus as the detour and essential repairs made them very late (which was the purpose of the attack). It's not the tool, but the one who wields it (and to a large degree the one it is wielded against). Last edited by swordtart; 12-03-2022 at 02:58 AM. |
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12-03-2022, 10:28 AM | #15 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA, USA
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Re: Heavy AV Rifle... abuse?
Tampa Wrecking Crew Archive
SWAT HQ https://www.seanet.com/~owenmp/twc/index.html Just . . . Don't Things that seemed like a good idea at the time Tampa Wrecking Crew Archive SWAT HQ https://www.seanet.com/~owenmp/twc/badidea.html More is better, but more brains is best. There was an evil man with an evil plan. He would build the ultimate fighting vehicle. Bristling with weapons, this dreadnaught could fire in any direction and at any angle. To build this death machine on a budget of only $20,000 he would have to be creative. He built a pickup truck with a recoilless firing forward, and put five passengers in the back with anti-vehicular rifles (this was before we started charging $$ for the use of gunners). They met his requirement: they could fire independently in the side and rear arcs of fire. At first, his creation appeared to be a legitimate threat. At the beginning of the 2nd second of combat, disaster struck in the form of a mid-sized car with a ram plate. Since it came in head on, the gunners were unable to bring their weapons to bear. The recoilless was unable to stop the approaching vehicle, and the pickup had neither the maneuverability to dodge, nor the side armor to withstand a t-bone collision with a ram plate. In the blink of an eye it was over. The impact hurled all five gunners to their deaths and destroyed the pickup's front armor, recoilless rifle, and power plant. The ramming vehicle earned $1,000 each for the slain passengers, $2,000 for incapacitating the pickup, and later earned another $1,000 for shooting the pickup's driver as he attempted to flee the arena on foot. Total: $8,000 and an invaluable lesson.
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Michael P. Owen Seattle Washington Autoduel Team https://www.seanet.com/~owenmp/swathome.html Twitter: Car Combat Central https://twitter.com/carcombat |
12-03-2022, 03:20 PM | #16 | |
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Re: Heavy AV Rifle... abuse?
Quote:
I can see the ruling that people atop a vehicle can get thrown off, but at the start of that paragraph where it may have been conflated from it talks about moving ON oversized vehicles and IN a pickup bed. The top of an oversized vehicles does not have sides or rear like a pickup and it has been established that bed riders are protected by side and rear armour, they therefore are no more liable to being thrown out than the crew of a vehicle with a convertible hardtop (or just no top armour). Further that whole section is written from the perspective of someone getting onto a vehicle, not starting out as a passenger in that vehicle. There is nothing to say that pickup bed riders are not in passenger seats* in the bed as the space and weight would be identical. They could therefore be strapped in and no more at risk than any other passenger (other than being exposed to burst effect and flame clouds etc.) I can see bed riders getting concussed and that is already covered by the rules for collisions, and would be in dire straits in the event of a roll, but I fear that incident was ruled incorrectly. *As a passenger in a cargo space is cargo and as a cargo holding component can be placed in cargo as an exception to the no vehicle components in cargo, it would be legal to put Safety Seats into the cargo area of a vehicle (including a pickup bed) to protect passengers. Last edited by swordtart; 12-03-2022 at 03:32 PM. |
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12-03-2022, 06:37 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Heavy AV Rifle... abuse?
Is that the black cover version?
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"Dale *who*?" 79er The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course: 1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End. |
12-04-2022, 10:29 AM | #18 |
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Re: Heavy AV Rifle... abuse?
Yes, but it's also in the Blue compendium on P30, and Classic Car Wars on P29.
In old B&W Delux the damage location rules were different and I can't find it there (but it's harder to search the dead-tree edition than a searchable PDF). This ruling came into effect when the compartment model of damage location was introduced in the ADQ&A section of ADQ 6-3 (p47). The closest you get in Pre-compendium is where it specifies in the "The Human Element" section that you need to specify which side of the car the driver is on. Even when I first played (edition 3) we assumed the same rules applied for the other crewmembers. I can't think of any other reason to specify which side the driver is on other than to determine hand weapon fire arcs. So it has been official since Fall 2038 (1988). |
12-04-2022, 02:48 PM | #19 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Heavy AV Rifle... abuse?
That explains it, then....
__________________
"Dale *who*?" 79er The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course: 1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End. |
12-04-2022, 02:55 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Jun 2008
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Re: Heavy AV Rifle... abuse?
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