[LT] Silk vs Piercing

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Corrosive is also bad, 'damages armor' should probably be a +100% enhancement that can be applied to multiple damage types (Corrosive would then either become Chemical, or become merged with Burning)

I could get behind that.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

All this seems to indicate that damage is categorised by effect, not origin.

Indeed. The issue at hand is that there's a lot of things that fall under the umbrella of "Piercing" with an effect that's more like "Impaling with a lower Wounding Modifier," or that is really more akin to Crushing than Piercing (if short shield spikes are Crushing - likely a reference to their low penetration - sling bullets arguably should be as well). More consistency would be welcome, although I doubt there are many cases where the exact nature of the Piercing attack is anywhere close to game-breaking.

[Flyndaran]

I'm sure I saw an optional rule of changing slings to crushing damage. If going fast enough, then by definition they're bullets and therefore piercing.

Though that does make me wonder at what force they make the switch. My long armed giants might approach that point.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Which is reasonable until you get into the problem of armor. My rework of innate attack is that there's just 'damage' and you pile enhancements on it.

And armor, like DR in general, can be conditioned on the source or nature of the damage in other ways than being based on the damage type...but it's frequently based on the damage type.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Early modern bullet resistant vests were made of silk due to an observation - a particular duelist was saved by a silk handkerchief in his vest pocket (probably a case of Tin Star Armor, from Tactical Shooting).

It's worth observing that the vests in question had about thirty layers of silk.

The duellist in question would have had his handkerchief folded up in his pocket. When I fold mine they end up sixteen layers thick. So the bullet (having luckily hit the bloke over the pocket he had his hankie in) would have had to penetrate a layer of woollen suiting material, then the lining of the pocket, then perhaps sixteen layers of silk handkerchief, then the lining of the pocket again, then the canvas or buckram interlining of the man's coat, then the lining of his coat, then perhaps another layer of suiting and another of lining making up his waistcoat, then his silk or linen shirt, and then probably an undershirt. Two layers of woollen suiting, one of buckram, twenty of silk, one of linen, and one of flannel — it's not a huge surprise that that stopped a fairly slow soft lead bullet from a black-powder cartridge pistol. And it's a flimsy basis on which to ascribe wonderful properties to a single-layer silk shirt.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Which is reasonable until you get into the problem of armor. My rework of innate attack is that there's just 'damage' and you pile enhancements on it.

That's certainly a nice way to handle things from a Powers perspective. It makes weapon statlines significantly more fussy, though. Might need to write up the same ten-ish standard damage types from modifiers and give them short aliases as now.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

That's certainly a nice way to handle things from a Powers perspective. It makes weapon statlines significantly more fussy, though. Might need to write up the same ten-ish standard damage types from modifiers and give them short aliases as now.

Sure. The current types are:

• Burning: Can Start Fires.
• Burning, Tight: Can Target Vitals, Can Start Fires (1/10).
• Corrosive: Damages Armor.
• Crushing: Does Knockback, Does Nonpenetrating 20%.
• Cutting: Does Knockback, Does Nonpenetrating 10%, Wound Mod 1.5
• Fatigue: Damages FP, not HP.
• Impaling: Can Target Vitals, Does Nonpenetrating 10%, Wound Mod 2.0, Reduced Vs Unliving/Homogenous.
• Piercing: Can Target Vitals, Does Nonpenetrating 10%, Wound Mod varies, Reduced Vs Unliving/Homogenous.
• Toxic: Not Vs Immunity to Metabolic Hazards.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Sure. The current types are:

• Burning: Can Start Fires.
• Burning, Tight: Can Target Vitals, Can Start Fires (1/10).
• Corrosive: Damages Armor.
• Crushing: Does Knockback, Does Nonpenetrating 20%.
• Cutting: Does Knockback, Does Nonpenetrating 10%, Wound Mod 1.5
• Fatigue: Damages FP, not HP.
• Impaling: Can Target Vitals, Does Nonpenetrating 10%, Wound Mod 2.0, Reduced Vs Unliving/Homogenous.
• Piercing: Can Target Vitals, Does Nonpenetrating 10%, Wound Mod varies, Reduced Vs Unliving/Homogenous.
• Toxic: Not Vs Immunity to Metabolic Hazards.

There are of course other factors, such as different multipliers for certain hit locations (cut vs. tox. vs. corr vs. various piercing and impaling), the effects of Mind Stab on someone with a mind but ItMH etc. etc.
(Also feels like coming full circle, mostly.)

[Tyneras]

I've mentally categorized the damage types as a grid, with area of effect on one side and mechanism of damage on the other.

Area

• Broad
• Narrow

Mechanism

• Energy changes state (fire, laser, lightning)
• Dispersal of material (disintigrator)
• Smash Material
• Separate Material
• Disrupt Metabolic Functions (DNA, hemoglobin, etc.)

Resulting in these categories:
[Energy, Broad] Burning Damage (Fire)
[Energy, Narrow] Burning, tight beam (laser)
[Disperse, Broad] Corrosive Damage.
[Disperse, Narrow] ???
[Smash, Broad] Crushing Damage
[Smash, Narrow] Peircing Damage (all sizes)
[Separate, Broad] Cutting Damage
[Separate, Narrow] Impaling (needs variable sizes)
[Metabolic, Broad] Toxic Damage
[Metabolic, Narrow] ???

Some categories don't seem to be represented, and I agree corrosive would probably fit as enhancement better.