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Old 06-21-2020, 05:08 PM   #1
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Nerfing triple damage

Personally, I think triple damage is excessive and toasts PCs too often. What about this:

4: max damage (roughly double average damage)
3: add max damage (roughly triple average damage)

These are still very good results and they have a bonus of being potentially faster to compute...
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Old 06-21-2020, 05:16 PM   #2
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Nerfing triple damage

Maybe great swords make even this nerfing too much, I dunno...

But the Legacy ST 0 rules should at least help with that, I think...
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Old 06-21-2020, 05:31 PM   #3
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Nerfing triple damage

What about:

Double damage = +1d
Triple damage = +2d
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Old 06-21-2020, 05:59 PM   #4
TippetsTX
 
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Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: Nerfing triple damage

Triple ones = x2 damage plus a critical effect.

Critical effects may include results such as...
  • Temporarily stunned
  • Loss of limb
  • Blinded
  • Split shield
  • etc.
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Old 06-21-2020, 09:09 PM   #5
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Nerfing triple damage

I've never thought the double or triple damage results were problems, and did not see excessive PC death due to them.

I also don't particularly get why the original suggestion is thought to help a whole lot. I guess someone's seen a few cases of triple damage hitting PCs with 2-die or greater weapons that then also rolled high damage amounts which were tripled.

In that case, I would say you just had more than your share of rolling that way. I would also suggest doing the way we usually have done double and triple damage (just because it gives more grainy results, and is fun): roll double or triple dice. e.g. 3d-1 tripled is 9d-3. That would also tend to give you more moderate damage rolls, and it also means fewer cases of rolling double/triple but then getting a really low roll...

... and most importantly, you get to roll more dice at once, so you get a visceral experience of the extra dice.
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Old 06-21-2020, 10:28 PM   #6
JimmyPlenty
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Nerfing triple damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
What about:

Double damage = +1d
Triple damage = +2d
I thought that exact thing...but I was worried about the fact that it doesn't scale. A dagger does the same bonus as a great sword.

Of course, we could just say it's a "skilled" bonus and not a weapon bonus.
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Old 06-22-2020, 07:40 AM   #7
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Nerfing triple damage

I agree that 2x and 3x damage are a problem. I think the problem is that they are not something the player can do anything about. They aren't really avoidable (fighters can't reasonably avoid getting attacked, not and leave the game much fun) and they can't really be mitigated (once you've been hit it's mostly too late). Nor are they anything the attacker can work to achieve. So they're just a random thunderbolt that drops on someone's head, and if we wanted to play Blackjack we could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
What about:
Double damage = +1d
Triple damage = +2d
That's in the spirit of the new pole weapon rules, and the new shrewd attack rules, and probably quite a good idea.

Another issue with the 3/4/5 rolls is that they don't care what your DX is, cf. the famous flinger. I've toyed with saying that you can't get the 3/4/5 if you voluntarily took a penalty (e.g. for an aimed shot) but you can if you're suffering involuntary penalties (e.g. for blur).
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Old 06-22-2020, 07:51 AM   #8
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Nerfing triple damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyPlenty View Post
I thought that exact thing...but I was worried about the fact that it doesn't scale. A dagger does the same bonus as a great sword.

Of course, we could just say it's a "skilled" bonus and not a weapon bonus.
Since the concern seemed to be more about sudden, inescapable death from very high damage totals, the scaleability isn't really a problem. A triple damage 1d weapon which rolls triple damage still only does 3 dice damage. For an experienced character in good armour (say ST 14 and 5 points of protection) that probably won't be an instant kill. However, under the current system a broadsword is doing 6 dice on a triple and a battleaxe 9 dice!

It scales, just in a different way:

Current rules on a triple (I know you don't actually roll this many dice, just triple the rolled number):

1d weapon = 3d damage
2d weapon = 6d damage
3d weapon = 9d damage

Proposed scale on a triple:

1d weapon = 3d damage
2d weapon = 4d damage
3d weapon = 5d damage

Just seems a bit less extreme. As things stand if someone hits you with a battleaxe for a triple the damage range is 9-54 points! Under the alternative system it would be 5-30, which is still considerable but not so insane.
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Old 06-22-2020, 08:23 AM   #9
Shostak
 
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Nerfing triple damage

I've always considered 2x and 3x damage to be fun features of the game. Who doesn't love having their character rolling double or triple damage? However, it's not quite as much fun when the damage is coming at you. So, one question is: do you want to nerf it globally or just for the GM's rolls? Either way, one solution that provides both tactical and narrative possibilities would be for rolls of 4 to knock the victim down, and rolls of 3 knock them unconscious.
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Old 06-22-2020, 12:19 PM   #10
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Nerfing triple damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
I agree that 2x and 3x damage are a problem. I think the problem is that they are not something the player can do anything about. They aren't really avoidable (fighters can't reasonably avoid getting attacked, not and leave the game much fun) and they can't really be mitigated (once you've been hit it's mostly too late).
It seems to me that quite to contrary, the gameplay of TFT combat is largely about trying to minimize the number of times you get attacked and hit, and that there are quite a few ways to try to arrange that. And that it is quite fun and interesting.

It also seems to me that removing the possibility of double and triple damage would cause several problems and make combat more predictable and less interesting. To me, rare unexpected high-damage results are a good thing, and one of the few things that poses a threat to stacked high-armor targets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
Nor are they anything the attacker can work to achieve. So they're just a random thunderbolt that drops on someone's head, and if we wanted to play Blackjack we could.

That's in the spirit of the new pole weapon rules, and the new shrewd attack rules, and probably quite a good idea.

Another issue with the 3/4/5 rolls is that they don't care what your DX is, cf. the famous flinger. I've toyed with saying that you can't get the 3/4/5 if you voluntarily took a penalty (e.g. for an aimed shot) but you can if you're suffering involuntary penalties (e.g. for blur).
I do agree more with this line of thinking. It would be good if double and triple damage (and auto hits) had more to do with skill and ability, and less just unmodified luck.
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