Vote in my Campaign's Election

[Tomsdad]

I can't help but think there's a way to have your cake and eat it too, with Moore and Elias.

Elias doesn't seem to need or want to be in charge in order to bring his skills and experience to the situation.

To me the best possible scenario is Moore as "head of state", with Elias as 2nd in command with a pretty free hand over the areas of his responsibility. Both supporting the other when it comes to each other's responsibility.

Elias might see a need for a bit of military organisation, but the town and it's people are not a military organisation and soldiers. He'll need Moore's skillset with the towns people.

Moore, might want to maintain normalcy, but the situation isn't normal. He needs Elias' skill set for marshalling the town for dealing with it.


This would not only seem to be best for the town in terms of best people for the job but also satisfies the motivations of both Moore and Elias

(if Moore has a background of maintaining power against political challenges and divvying up responsibility between friends and allies, I would imagine the above would have occurred to him, but if he hasn't maybe the PCs could suggest it and/or help broker it?)


Bonus positive is these two together likely dissuade Smith from causing trouble.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Well, I don't think Elias is a perfect candidate, but a military mindset should be helpful in organizing, at least, which does sound like a dire need.

Many nations have instituted a military draft or organised a militia system without it being necessary to replace the civil government with a military one. Elias can perfectly well be put in charge of establishing a militia and defending the town without making him Mayor, President or giving him full executive authority.

In fact, I'd argue that combining the highest office of the state with the effective day-to-day commander of the military is actively harmful, in that it risks reducing the town solely to a military camp, which despite what Elias might think has not historically had great success when it comes to sustained economic development.

Put it bluntly, doing nothing and letting people figure things out themselves might well yield more food production in the long term than a centrally managed program under the command of someone who doesn't have the first idea about farming.

It is true that the town needs authority that they likely haven't exercised much until now, to organise for major infrastructure projects, to confiscate private property when necessary and to levy work duties from everyone. But neither Moore, Smith nor Elias have any relevant knowledge to organising the most important projects, i.e. those related to becoming self-sufficient in subsistence farming production.

In light of that fact, it will be necessary for any of them to appoint other men to manage those all important projects and invest them with the necessary authority. As such, Elias and Smith do not appear to have any advantages over Moore, in that Moore can perfectly well appoint them to similar positions as his Acriculture czar.

People might decry professional politicians as unnecessary and a blight on democracy, but it is nevertheless a fact that exercising power in a way that minimises discontent and allows at least a narrow majority to feel included is a learned skill. Moore has learned it.

Smith and Elias are both, in their own way, used to making decisions without having to worry about who likes them. That's fine, if they were simply managing a short-term emergency. It's potentially disastrous, when proposed as the permanent form of government for the last pocket of a former democracy as they prepare to face the challenges of a new world and a new future.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Many nations have instituted a military draft or organised a militia system without it being necessary to replace the civil government with a military one. Elias can perfectly well be put in charge of establishing a militia and defending the town without making him Mayor, President or giving him full executive authority.

In fact, I'd argue that combining the highest office of the state with the effective day-to-day commander of the military is actively harmful, in that it risks reducing the town solely to a military camp, which despite what Elias might think has not historically had great success when it comes to sustained economic development.

Put it bluntly, doing nothing and letting people figure things out themselves might well yield more food production in the long term than a centrally managed program under the command of someone who doesn't have the first idea about farming.

It is true that the town needs authority that they likely haven't exercised much until now, to organise for major infrastructure projects, to confiscate private property when necessary and to levy work duties from everyone. But neither Moore, Smith nor Elias have any relevant knowledge to organising the most important projects, i.e. those related to becoming self-sufficient in subsistence farming production.

In light of that fact, it will be necessary for any of them to appoint other men to manage those all important projects and invest them with the necessary authority. As such, Elias and Smith do not appear to have any advantages over Moore, in that Moore can perfectly well appoint them to similar positions as his Acriculture czar.

People might decry professional politicians as unnecessary and a blight on democracy, but it is nevertheless a fact that exercising power in a way that minimises discontent and allows at least a narrow majority to feel included is a learned skill. Moore has learned it.

Smith and Elias are both, in their own way, used to making decisions without having to worry about who likes them. That's fine, if they were simply managing a short-term emergency. It's potentially disastrous, when proposed as the permanent form of government for the last pocket of a former democracy as they prepare to face the challenges of a new world and a new future.

.....Yep +1,

[Daigoro]

Unfortunately, what might be the 'best' option under a reasoned analysis of the candidates' personalities and the unique situation they're in may not necessarily be the option that a popular vote held among a populace of frightened, hungry and desperate voters would choose. In such a situation, they might be more inclined to go for the tough guy who promises immediate action, especially if he's more skilled at such propaganda.

In this case, Smith could well be taking a shot at the power seat because he sensed that the incumbent's position was weakening among the townsfolk. What's his long term goal?

And a more meta consideration- which option would give the greatest dramatic benefit to the game?

[Phantasm]

I vote to make Moore the Judge rather than Mayor. At the least, it'd keep a check against either of the other two gaining a lot of power, and his history of fairness will be a plus when the civil cases between townsfolk are brought before him.

I also vote that Elias be made Militia Captain or Sheriff or whatever term they decide on for the guy maintaining law and defense in the town and surrounding areas, in particular the route between the town and the river. He seems like they kind of person they need in that role

That makes Smith the only remaining choice for mayor, unless someone like Moore's nephew gets a large write-in percentage. In fact, that could easily happen: someone who doesn't want the role but the town decides would be a better choice than any of the three declared candidates, so they scribble his name in instead. Especially if "we need younger leaders who can adapt" becomes a thing. One thing I noticed about the three main candidates is that they're older and rather set in their ways. A new place may call for new ideas and new leaders.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

I vote to make Moore the Judge rather than Mayor. At the least, it'd keep a check against either of the other two gaining a lot of power, and his history of fairness will be a plus when the civil cases between townsfolk are brought before him.

Actually that's a point, did this town have it's own judge before? (or did it rely on travelling ones).

They're going to need one weather it's one of these three or not

Originally Posted by Phantasm

I also vote that Elias be made Militia Captain or Sheriff or whatever term they decide on for the guy maintaining law and defense in the town and surrounding areas, in particular the route between the town and the river. He seems like they kind of person they need in that role

That makes Smith the only remaining choice for mayor, unless someone like Moore's nephew gets a large write-in percentage. In fact, that could easily happen: someone who doesn't want the role but the town decides would be a better choice than any of the three declared candidates, so they scribble his name in instead. Especially if "we need younger leaders who can adapt" becomes a thing. One thing I noticed about the three main candidates is that they're older and rather set in their ways. A new place may call for new ideas and new leaders.

I think the problems with Smith (AFAICT no positive qualifications or experience, and a history of corruption) basically wally him out from the get go. Even if we think the other two might be better suited for other roles than mayor.

[JoelSammallahti]

Thanks! I voted for Smith: he seems like a guy who can get things done. That is, he got a 14 on his Reaction Roll. What this town needs right now is a man of action with hands-on experience leading men in a tough situation. Now, some of you might say Elias is that man, but despite his undeniable good qualities, he's just too old and reclusive to bring the required energy to the task (he only got an 8), and the incumbent, while a decent fellow in every respect, is more of an administrator than a real leader (he got 11).

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by JoelSammallahti

Thanks! I voted for Smith:

heh, sorry!

Originally Posted by JoelSammallahti

he seems like a guy who can get things done. That is, he got a 14 on his Reaction Roll. What this town needs right now is a man of action with hands-on experience leading men in a tough situation. Now, some of you might say Elias is that man, but despite his undeniable good qualities, he's just too old and reclusive to bring the required energy to the task (he only got an 8), and the incumbent, while a decent fellow in every respect, is more of an administrator than a real leader (he got 11).

I guess for me just being a mine owner doesn't necessarily mean he's good at leading people in a tough situation. Was he hands on running the crews dealing with the day to day, or did he sit in an office while others made it all happen. And well there's no mine now to display his personal prowess and talents with (real or not)

And then you have the corruption issues

TBH to me when you look at the two side by side in terms of the skills given by dfinley:

Core campaigning skills:

Moore: Leadership 10, Diplomacy 11, Public Speaking 12, Carousing 11, Politics 10
Smith: Leadership 11, Diplomacy 9, Public Speaking 8, Carousing 13, Politics 8

While Moore is no great statesmen he's got advantages over Smith in both campaigning for office and being in office (IMO)

Smith has a point advantage in leadership, and significant advantage in Carousing (and looks more heroic). But when it comes to stumping* not only is Moore better at it, but he has experience and incumbent advantage.



*that public speaking QC is going to hurt Smith!

[Rigil_Kent]

Mr. Smith paid me to vote for him. So I did since I don't want my legs to be broken by some of his boys...

[Minuteman37]

Can we get some campaign promises? They're the bread and butter of democratic office seekers world wide.

Edit: I think giving Smith a vision for the community would really help him out in the polls. Just what will his hard decisions be?