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Old 09-12-2016, 08:01 PM   #31
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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Originally Posted by aesir23 View Post
...
I absolutely agree--mass is a big component in overall strength (although people can, obviously have varying strength to size ratios--gymnast for example tend to be shockingly strong for their size).

It's not particularly relevant to my argument though. The OP is asking for the highest possible human strength at TL 10--the answer to that question is going to start as a very large man with good genes for muscle building and work from there.
Square cube law favors the smaller person if you care about strength to mass ratios.
Size means greater strength, so how big can one be before you stop counting them as human? Ultra tech should be able to make someone start growing again as if in puberty.
Robert Wadlow was stickish and frail dying too young, but imagine an intentionally built man, healthy and robust, at 8'11".
Heaviest man to ever live was obviously insanely obese, but make that 1000 pounds with low fat percentage to that height, and on paper he may qualify as human.
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Old 09-12-2016, 09:03 PM   #32
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Size means greater strength, so how big can one be before you stop counting them as human?
In biological or legal terms?
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:59 PM   #33
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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Size means greater strength, so how big can one be before you stop counting them as human?
My favorite D&D PC from days long gone in the 80s/90s was an 8 foot Viking built like Hafţór Júlíus "Thor" Björnsson. He was human but erroneously considered "trollborn" in his native culture on Earth. He got magicked to the World of Greyhawk where he was commonly thought to be a juvenile frost giant. This mistaken species identity problem actually helped when we played through the Against the Giants series, but it otherwise was an annoying lesson in "careful what you wish for" for me as a player. To this day, I can't explain why it was so important to me to have a character that big.
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:37 PM   #34
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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In biological or legal terms?
Legally black people weren't considered human, so I think we can safely ignore that direction as 100% setting dependent.
Biologically is also arguable like pinning down species. Are dogs, wolves, and coyotes different species? How far you differ before you're no longer X animal is not something that can be objectively defined and agreed upon by all.
That's why I'm asking OP and really other posters here too.
Asking what the limits of human are is to also ask what humans are.
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:39 PM   #35
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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My favorite D&D PC from days long gone in the 80s/90s was an 8 foot Viking built like Hafţór Júlíus "Thor" Björnsson. He was human but erroneously considered "trollborn" in his native culture on Earth. He got magicked to the World of Greyhawk where he was commonly thought to be a juvenile frost giant. This mistaken species identity problem actually helped when we played through the Against the Giants series, but it otherwise was an annoying lesson in "careful what you wish for" for me as a player. To this day, I can't explain why it was so important to me to have a character that big.
I've imagined playing a giant with dwarfism that likes hanging around with his fellow little people aka humans etc. even though he towers over them. Primordial dwarfism so he didn't look unusually proportioned.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:46 AM   #36
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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I've imagined playing a giant with dwarfism that likes hanging around with his fellow little people aka humans etc. even though he towers over them. Primordial dwarfism so he didn't look unusually proportioned.
I've played a Dwarf with Gigantism, he was 5' 4''!
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Old 09-13-2016, 05:13 AM   #37
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

A dwarf with gigantism and a giant with dwarfism. There's a buddy comedy waiting to be played.
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:44 AM   #38
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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Originally Posted by aesir23 View Post
Meh, this isn't as impressive as you make it sound.

In GURPS, a person of average strength can deadlift (lift with 2 hands in 4 seconds) 160 lbs, and a person with ST 20 can deadlift 640 Lbs (with the help of neither Lifting Skill nor Extra Effort). Since Basic Lifts are added in GURPS when people work together, that is indeed "the Strength of 4 men!"

However, it's not at all an unrealistic range of ability in the real world.

I can probably deadlift over just over 200 lbs (I never lift at my maximum weight, so I can't be sure) and Hafthor Bjornson can lift 994 lbs.* .

Only he is using extra effort and lifting skill (the BL two handed lift weights assumption in GURPS is no skill and being able to rep it every 4 seconds at will)

Also more importantly your talking about dead lifts, the BL lifts in GURPS are overhead lifts

Basic Lift is the maximum weight
you can lift over your head with one
hand in one second. It is equal to
(STĄST)/5 lbs. If BL is 10 lbs. or more,
round to the nearest whole number; e.g.,
16.2 lbs. becomes 16 lbs. The average
human has ST 10 and a BL of 20 lbs.
Doubling the time lets you lift
2ĄBL overhead in one hand.
Quadrupling the time, and using two
hands, you can lift 8ĄBL overhead.
pgg15


As you say the world record dead lift 1100lb is held by Eddie Hall (another WSM competitor), and here's a description of it what it felt like, certainly a case of extra effort I'd say!

The world record for overhead (clean and jerk) is 580lb or just over half the dead lift record


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Originally Posted by aesir23 View Post
.

*That comes out to a basic lift of 124 lbs and a lifting ST of 24. But let's assume he's getting a 50% bonus to his Basic Lift from VERY good rolls on Lifting and Extra Effort--that's a Basic Lift of 93 Lbs which is STILL a lifting ST of 21! I'm very pleased at how this works out in GURPS's favor. Hafthor is a multiple "World's Strongest Man" winner, who probably has ST 20 and Special Exercises (Lifting ST 1) all bought at a discount thanks to Giganticism.

But your using the wrong real world lift to calculate from (IIRC when this come up before I could get pretty close to a the world clean and jerk with ST14, a point or two of lift ST, a good lifting skill and high will for extra effort (so a pretty specialised build compared to most humans but not outlandishly so IMO)

also unless you talking about heats Hafţór Björnsson hasn't won the WSM yet


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Originally Posted by aesir23 View Post
I agree with you in part, but I think you're significantly overstating the case. In the specific case of Hafthor--he's a generalist of a strength athlete--it's how the World's Strongest Man competition is designed, with a variety of strength feats involving irregularly shaped, awkward objects. I'm sure he uses the deadlift as part of his strength training regime, but he's not a deadlift specialist--there's no reason to believe he has specialized his body for that particular lift.
...
I agree with that these are generalists in terms of weight lifters (but that's a relative term in terms of people in general), but that doesn't preclude lifting skill and extra effort


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Originally Posted by mr beer View Post
Yep, they need to be quite fit as well, at least for short bursts of activity. Rapid movement under load is definitely a requirement, IIRC that's where multiple champion Mariusz Pudzianowski excelled.

Height is an interesting one, they need to be big to attach absurd amounts of muscle onto their skeletons but yeah over a certain point it seems to hinder peak performance. The sweet spot is probably between 6'2" to 6'6". Being short is a disadvantage on certain events as well, I think loading stones onto raised platforms favours taller competitors.
Keg toss, Fingal's Fingers as well (and anything where long levers help)

Being very tall is a disadvantage in others though, Dead lift, over head lifts, squats etc, etc. See Eddie Hall above who excels at these lifts and is relatively short.

Most of the chaps who came out of power lifting tend to be on the shorter end of the scale (but again short is a relative term, FWIW I think your likely right in your sweet spot). Ultimately I think there are a lot of limiting factors at play in both directions both in terms of the external bio-mechanics of the events and the internal bio-mechanics of bodies.

Last edited by Tomsdad; 09-13-2016 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:11 PM   #39
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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A dwarf with gigantism and a giant with dwarfism. There's a buddy comedy waiting to be played.
I would watch that.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:16 PM   #40
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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A dwarf with gigantism and a giant with dwarfism. There's a buddy comedy waiting to be played.
While not a buddy comedy, the Almighty Johnsons featured such a pair. Though the giant disguised himself as a vegetarian hippy.
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