Shrinking and lifting strength

[awesomenessofme1]

The description of Shrinking only mentions that it affects height, weight, Move, reach, damage, HP, and DR. Nothing about lifting ability. Of those, you can get modifiers that changes how it affects Move, damage, HP, and DR. Again, nothing about lifting. The only logical interpretation I can pull from that is that not only does Shrinking not affect lifting strength, but you can't even apply a modifier to make it affect it. I've checked Powers, Supers, and both the official and unofficial FAQs, and haven't found anything. Is there a clarification or change somewhere that I haven't found?

[Refplace]

A matter of interpretation but Lifting and Striking ST are subsets of ST so I say affected by the damage modifier.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Refplace

A matter of interpretation but Lifting and Striking ST are subsets of ST so I say affected by the damage modifier.

The Basic Set specifies "damage (with unarmed attacks, Innate Attacks, or shrunken weapons)".

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

The Basic Set specifies "damage (with unarmed attacks, Innate Attacks, or shrunken weapons)".

Yes, and two of those tend to be based on ST.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Yes, and two of those tend to be based on ST.

Yes, and? It's not written inclusively. There's no vagueness, no ellipsis, no "etc". It affects those three things.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

The description of Shrinking only mentions that it affects height, weight, Move, reach, damage, HP, and DR. Nothing about lifting ability. Of those, you can get modifiers that changes how it affects Move, damage, HP, and DR. Again, nothing about lifting. The only logical interpretation I can pull from that is that not only does Shrinking not affect lifting strength, but you can't even apply a modifier to make it affect it. I've checked Powers, Supers, and both the official and unofficial FAQs, and haven't found anything. Is there a clarification or change somewhere that I haven't found?

They've never bothered spelling it out anywhere that I can think of. The assumption (I've always believed) is to fit the common trope of shrunken characters retaining their full size ST. You're free to take reduced ST or Lifting ST tied to your Shrinking in order to fit to concept.

[dcarson]

It is symmetrical, Growth you have to take more ST if you want more, you don't get it for free.

[transmetahuman]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

They've never bothered spelling it out anywhere that I can think of. The assumption (I've always believed) is to fit the common trope of shrunken characters retaining their full size ST. You're free to take reduced ST or Lifting ST tied to your Shrinking in order to fit to concept.

I don't think three superheroes (the Silver+ Age Atom, plus the MCU's Ant-Man and Wasp) means it's a "common" assumption*. It's much, much more common among all appropriate genres to see shrinking Afflictions (that almost invariably end up with the victims completely outmatched strength-wise by insects).

I'm in the "have it reduce all ST like damage" camp, for simplicity's sake, not to mention a shrinking power could end up being a net Disadvantage using conditional reduced ST.

I've also been thinking about a similar reduction for the range of attacks - your tiny gun, bow and arrows, flame jet, or in-scale [whatever] beam just won't feel right if they can keep their normal range.

*Of course there are probably more that I don't know about, but I think my point will stand.

[AlexanderHowl]

You cannot carry objects while shrunk unless you have the Can Carry Objects enhancement. If you do have the enhancement, the object shrinks proportionally, meaning that it will not weigh nearly as much as it did. Encumbrance is based on the original weight and on your original BL.

For example, Micro Mary possesses Shrinking 20 (Can Carry Objects, None, +10%; Full HP, +30%; Full Move, +30%) [170]. With a ST 10, she is capable of Shrinking 10 kg with her, allowing her to preserve her modesty. Normally 50 kg, she shrinks to 5 micrograms, making her the same size as a grain of sand. While she cannot punch, she can slam people with her HP 10 and Move 10, though she only dealing 1d crushing damage.

If Micro Mary attempted to wrestle anything that massed more than her BL, she would find it impossible, as they would not shrink to her size. She could easily wrestle a mouse though, as it would weigh less than her BL, but she could not wrestle another 50 kg woman. She could grapple her, though it just means that Micro Mary is hitching a ride. The woman would need to make a -10 to (Sense) test to notice Micro Mary.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

I don't think three superheroes (the Silver+ Age Atom, plus the MCU's Ant-Man and Wasp) means it's a "common" assumption*. It's much, much more common among all appropriate genres to see shrinking Afflictions (that almost invariably end up with the victims completely outmatched strength-wise by insects).
*Of course there are probably more that I don't know about, but I think my point will stand.

A few more, yeah. Doll Man and Doll Girl, and the villainous versions of Yellowjacket. It wasn't entirely clear to me how strong Bumblebee was at insect size, but her suit definitely enhanced her strength at normal size. Similarly, The Fly and Fly Girl had vast super-strength normally, and could shrink or grow to huge sizes so quickly, it's hard to tell if the shrinking weakened them. Elasti-Girl didn't have super-strength at her normal size, but she did share the Fly's rapid growth and shrinking. There's probably some more that I'm forgetting.
It's best to check with Kromm if there is doubt about the intent of the wording of the advantage.