08-17-2010, 09:36 AM | #11 | |
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Jacksonville FL
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Re: Optimum Level of Deceptive Attack
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I have run Star Wars games where fencing can be used with Force Sword (+3 to retreating parries) and levels of Enhanced Parry (lev 2) coupled with Precognitive parry(+1 to melee parries) and Combat reflexses stacked on top of characters with high skill (20) and BLAMO, one has a Parry score of: 19 (effective) It works out though, since the other jedi they were fighting could stack feints on deceptive attacks, following rounds where they evaluated. Penalties in the -8 to -12 region were not uncommon. Again thanks for the chart.
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Two things that I learned from Dungeons & Dragons is that I LOVE GURPS and it isn't really a compliment when a gnome tells you your hair smells nice. |
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08-17-2010, 07:33 PM | #12 |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Optimum Level of Deceptive Attack
I bumped the chart out to Effective Skill 30 and Defense 23+.
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/7...eattackfix.png Remember, these are effective skills, so even if you are in a high powered game, you're better off buying advantages with your skill value over 16. Here's the benefit chart: http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1...eattackben.png As you can see, at Effective Skill 30, the bottom of the chart is 0 and remains so all the way down. Last edited by dublindog; 08-18-2010 at 02:47 PM. Reason: updated photo links |
08-17-2010, 07:46 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Re: Optimum Level of Deceptive Attack
What do you mean by "percent benefit"?
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08-17-2010, 08:07 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Optimum Level of Deceptive Attack
If your initial odds of a landed blow (attack succeeds, defense fails) are 50% [Skill 15 against Defense 10], you look on the first chart and see that you can take 1 Level of DA (-2 skill, -1 defense) and improve your odds of a landed blow to 53.07%. This is a percent benefit of 3.07%.
So, I'm not using initial probability as the denominator. If you wanted to in this case, it's a 6.14% improvement. But since the actual important number is the final odds of landing a blow, I'm using straight probability out of 100. So, you can ADD the "Percent Benefit" to the initial chance of landing a blow to find the resulting optimized chance using DA. |
08-18-2010, 07:35 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Czech Rep. Pilsen
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Re: Optimum Level of Deceptive Attack
I DO like stuff like this, but i can see some flaws on this table.
if I have skill like 20, why ever should I get only deceptive attack 1? result will be Attack 18 and defense penalty -1 when all rolls 17+ is fail anyway, it have no benefit to have net skill 18. Quote:
defense roll 10- alone have 50:50 or 50% chance, but there is also chance of failing 15- attack roll which affect result.
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08-18-2010, 07:50 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Torino, Italy
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Re: Optimum Level of Deceptive Attack
A really interesting work...
Allow me to make some observations: 1) often, a Deceptive Attack will grant a very minor benefit. It is somewhat less useful than I thought. E.g., for attack skill in the 15-17 range, a DA improves your chances to hit by +5%/+10% AT MOST. 2) if the enemy best defense is not Dodge, the DA benefit will be even lower than the tables indicate. That's because forcing your enemy to use up his Parries/Block will penalize his further defenses; so having your attacks Blocked or Parried is often better than risking to fail them outright with a DA. (because other fighters could, and will, attack your enemy forcing him to use his lower dodge). 3) For very good defenses VS not-so-good attacks, the "best DA option" is often not intuitive at all, and it changes weirdly. E.g., if you are facing an enemy with an effective Defense of 16, and your attack skill is 16, your best option is an ordinary (not Deceptive) attack. But if your attack skill is either 15 or 17, your best option becomes a -6/-3 Deceptive attack!
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08-18-2010, 08:08 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Optimum Level of Deceptive Attack
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With skill 15, -6/-3 isn't even legal. With skill 17, -6/-3 by my figuring gives a slightly lower total chance to hit and a vastly lower chance of criticals than no DA. EDIT: I fumbled the math. -6/-3 is (a little) better real hit chance.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. Last edited by Ulzgoroth; 08-18-2010 at 03:15 PM. |
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08-18-2010, 08:54 AM | #18 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Optimum Level of Deceptive Attack
Deceptive Attack speadsheet by seasong:
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08-18-2010, 12:55 PM | #19 | |||
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: Optimum Level of Deceptive Attack
I'm not perfect, so there could be an error, but you're going to have to be more specific on what flaws you see. You might be mistaking your own misconceptions with flaws in the table.
When I started this task I neglected critical hits and boundary conditions not thinking they'd matter. But they do. I had to redo the chart recognizing that effective Defense 4 is the lowest effective (not 3), that 16 was the highest effective Defense and Skill. The odds don't change below 4 and above 16. Quote:
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P[18,4] = P[16,3] = 94.03% The way I programmed the chart, it lists the most conservative level of DA that still gives the optimal result. Quote:
P[Landed Blow] = P[Attacker Criticals] + P[Attacker Succeeds w/o Critical] * P[Target Defends] P[15,10] = 4.63% + 90.74% * 50% P[15,10] = 50% Can you see how this works? |
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08-18-2010, 01:29 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
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Re: Optimum Level of Deceptive Attack
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thanks a lot celjabba |
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Tags |
deceptive attack, gurps, min max |
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