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Old 01-13-2018, 07:47 AM   #231
acrosome
 
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Default Re: Campaign: Facets

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Originally Posted by tshiggins View Post
(...continued)

A.J. thought a northerly route, through sparsely-populated territory south and east of the Great Salt Lake, might offer the best opportunity for a relatively quiet journey. If the group could make it to the area of what would be Promontory, Utah, on their world, he thought, they might be able to cross the Rockies through an area the railroads had chosen for the intercontinental route, because the mountains were relatively low, there.
Bridger Pass! But that's in Wyoming... So they have to head south through Colorado? Are they on the prairies, or trying to hopscotch between the parks? (Hard to hide on the prairies.)

EDIT--

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The group settled down in the cool of the mid-May, 1919, evening to plot out their route in more detail. A.J. said he’d reconsidered their best route, and thought it made more sense to take a more direct line to the east, rather than loop up through what would be Promontory, Utah, in their world.
Aw. Bridger Pass would have gotten them cool points.

There aren't any great routes south of there until Santa Fe, are there? Smith went via the Salt Lake. Pike never really got past the San Luis Valley, near Alamosa.

EDIT--

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After some minor debate, the group decided to follow Arthur’s plan, and he sketched out a couple of different routes. In the end, the group decided to hike east to what would be Wolf Creek Pass in their world; cross the western crest of the mountains there and descend into South Park; and then exit to the Front Range over La Veta Pass, via the Great Sand Dunes.
Heh. I just mentioned Alamosa...

Making Wolf Creek Pass from Dark Canyon would be a slog, especially if there is no route blazed already. Damn. The Weminuche. The roads there now are basically graded out of mountainsides. That's hard country.

As a sidebar, here, which US cavalry units are being encountered? Because I used to be in the 11th ACR, which contributed forces to Pershing's pursuit of Pancho Villa in our timeline. But with the altered history here they might not even exist.

EDIT--

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By the time the group reached the foot of the pass in South Park,10 days after they set out,...
How does Wolf Creek to La Veta get one to South Park? They'd have to turn north out of the San Luis Valley through Poncha Pass. Did their plans change?

I just want to say that reading this is incredibly fun because I'm an avid hiker and this entire region is my back yard, so to speak. I particularly love the Sand Dunes, and the Sangre de Cristo mountains are one of my two go-to destinations within easy striking distance of Colorado Springs, the other being Lost Creek. (The San Luis Valley is fascinating in many ways, including the odd history behind how it was given in restitution for an original Spanish land grant. There was an important water-rights suit that hinged on it.)

And as you know I've also hiked Dark Canyon.

I have all sorts of ties to your campaign, tshiggins!

EDIT--

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Well, Beatrice has her .30-06, and Steven is packing a TL 8 sniper rifle (can't remember which one, off the top of my head) with modern optics. Doc Bascher, who rejoined the campaign, this last time, has her 12-gauge, and brought some slugs.

Jimmy, in NPC mode currently, has his Winchester lever-action, which is definitely underpowered for grizzlies.

Everybody else is packing pistols -- mostly 9 mm, although Beatrice has a 10 mm semi-auto. Jimmy has his old Colt .45, as well as the Python .357 he bought on the other side.
This is the West. Distances are long. Everyone needs a rifle. :)

The guy with a .357 could have at least had a Winchester or Marlin in the same caliber, which would only technically count as a "rifle", but it's better than a pistol. Likewise, the ones with more modern pistols could have a pistol-caliber carbine that probably even uses the same magazines, too. That Kel-Tec weighs less than 5 pounds and folds in half for easy packing, so it's very nice that way, but there are other options (using other magazines). The only one you might have trouble finding is something in 10mm Auto.

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Old 02-02-2018, 07:02 AM   #232
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Default Re: Campaign: Facets

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(SNIP)

There aren't any great routes south of there until Santa Fe, are there?
Not as compared to the Missouri Breaks or south along the Santa Fe Trail, no. However, the Mountain Men made it into the High Lonesome throughout the late 18th and early 19th centuries using the high passes in Colorado, and that's what these guys are doing.

Compared to what the trappers did, they're better off, because there have been some improvements made, through the years.

If you want some insight into Arthur's thinking, look at post #483 on this page: http://www.denvergurps.com/forum/ind...?topic=516.480 .

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(SNIP)

As a sidebar, here, which US cavalry units are being encountered? Because I used to be in the 11th ACR, which contributed forces to Pershing's pursuit of Pancho Villa in our timeline. But with the altered history here they might not even exist.
Well, Moab was founded at the site of a trading fort called the Elk Mountain Mission, on a stable ford that allowed crossing of the Colorado River, at any time of year.

Knowing about that ford, the group actually visited the area on their second visit through the portal. That's where they found their first well-stocked Ute trading campsite.

They also discovered it lay along the Camino Real del Norte, which mostly parallels the Colorado River (called the Rio Grande del Norte, in the Colony of New Spain). The camino mostly follows the northwest bank of the river.

It's conveniently located a long day's hike north from Dark Canyon, and it's the first place they normally stop. They approached it cautiously, because they already knew it was a really good spot and, sure enough, the U.S. cavalry had set up a semi-permanent forward base, there.

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(SNIP)

The guy with a .357 could have at least had a Winchester or Marlin in the same caliber, which would only technically count as a "rifle", but it's better than a pistol. Likewise, the ones with more modern pistols could have a pistol-caliber carbine that probably even uses the same magazines, too. That Kel-Tec weighs less than 5 pounds and folds in half for easy packing, so it's very nice that way, but there are other options (using other magazines). The only one you might have trouble finding is something in 10mm Auto.
The group, as a whole, isn't very tactically-minded (if that wasn't apparent, although Anten and Jeff do okay...), and they don't really think in terms of "subtlety" -- as you're about to see. That said, one of the people who played Jimmy, in the past, was my friend Dave, and Dave very much is tactically minded.

He played in my GURPS: Harn campaign, and my scratch-built campaign, both of which went on for years, as well as my AD&D campaign, back in high school.

He's also had a long-time fascination with military history, has a good-sized personal library on the topic, spent four years in the U.S. military, and served in both the Panama invasion and Desert Storm.

The group decided he was the best "Jimmy" they'd ever had, so I sort of model NPC Jimmy's behavior after how Dave played him. Jimmy tries to keep a low profile and avoid the worst of the group's more outrageous moral failures.

He's also not terribly comfortable with modern technology (although he no longer has minuses to use it), and prefers to stick with stuff he more easily recognizes. A Colt Python .357 revolver is a more powerful, accurate and reliable version of something he already knows really well, and that's why Jimmy carries it.
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Old 02-02-2018, 07:05 AM   #233
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Default Re: Campaign: Facets

Since we last played, I’ve moved to a new condo in Denver’s Capitol Hill neighborhood. Between getting prepared for the move, actually moving, and then starting to shift my stuff to where it can fit in a place that’s still being remodeled, I’ve been pretty distracted.

Fortunately, this session was pretty straightforward. Unfortunately, the group continued its degeneration into rank villainy. :)

Characters Present:

Dr. Henrietta "Indiana" Johnson -- A personable, age 29-and-holding Anthropologist who specializes in the pre-Columbian indigenous people of the American Desert Southwest. A Native of Apache Junction, AZ, "Indiana" is good with people and has been fascinated by American Indian religion and folklore since she was a child. Henrietta speaks Apache fluently, and not-so-secretly wishes archaeology could be more like Raiders of the Lost Ark and less like digging in a trench with a trowel and a toothbrush -- Played by Debbie S.

Dr. Arthur "A.J." Jamison -- a retired NASA scientist with a home in one of Moab's nicer canyon sub-developments, who volunteers for 4CSAR because he needs to do something to get out of the house. Considers himself responsible for Sunmi Jones, who is enough of a science-geek that the two of them can actually hold a conversation. -- Played by Anten S.

Aurelia R. Lockrin -- A young woman with a shady past who teaches History at Grand County High School (Home of the Red Devils!), and volunteers for 4CSAR because she's a bit of an adrenalin junkie, and likes the companionship. -- played by Bennie Rae P.

Dr. Belody "Doc" Bascher -- a local veterinarian for both large and small animals, who frequently fixates on her job and uses 4CSAR as her primary social outlet. -- played by Samantha H.

Sunmi Jones -- A Korean-American prodigy and student of chemistry at Utah Valley University, who spent most of her childhood with her deceased mother's family in Korea, but has come to Utah to attend college and work with her father's petroleum exploration firm. Somewhat moe, awkward-but-cute, glasses-wearing nerd girl, who only volunteers with 4CSAR because volunteer work is required for her degree. Recently suffered mental damage after an attack by a spirit of pain and violation, and agreed to become a chwal for the loa Erzuli Dahomey, as a way to replace the negative affects with those more positive. -- Played by Rebecca W. (Out of town.)

Beatrice "B" Lawrence -- U.S. Army veteran who works for a local air charter service as a helicopter mechanic. She recently lost the lower part of her left leg in a fight with a sorcerer from an opposing lodge, and now wears a high-tech prosthetic. A cynic about men, she is accompanied by "Grunt," the biggest, best-trained pit-bull anybody has ever seen (purchased as an ally, and a totally badass dog, even before it was possessed by what appears to be a benign “foo” spirit) -- played by Bernetta W.

Claudia Abigail Tavulari, member of the NASA Quantum Physics Research Team, and an old friend of Arthur Jamison’s. The team has been helping Arthur research the portal physics, on the sly. – Played by Tisa T.

Stephen Mack, another member of the NASA Quantum Physics Research Team, a former U.S. Marine Corps test pilot, and outdoors enthusiast. – Played by Jeff T.

NPCs Present

Jimmy Ehrland – A fugitive from the 1918 Colonia de Nova Espaņa, on the other side of the portal, he had fled from his vampire mistress, Doņa Eva, only to find himself in a strange, alien world to which he must struggle to adapt. – Shifted back to NPC status.

Randy "Random" Shoop -- a twenty-something, semi-pro mountain-bike competitor who has trouble staying focused, but is basically a good and reliable member of the team, with an unexpectedly strong moral character. – Currently in NPC status.

Grunt: Beatrice's ally, a large pit-bull possessed by a protective "foo" spirit. (Finally healed, but remained on the other side of the portal with Beatrice.)

A few days after the group left the vicinity of the Tomichi Creek trading camp, the group found itself at the eastern end of the wide valley dubbed South Park in their world, looking at the long, difficult trek up this world’s version of Monarch Pass. Feeling grateful for the string of pack animals now led by Henrietta and Jimmy, the party started the long, slow slog up into the eastern branch of the Continental Divide.

Fortunately, the weather stayed within expected parameters (although still a bit cooler than on their world, especially at night), and even Claudia didn’t slow them down, very much. (Tisa made some good rolls against default Hiking skill, and the group decided that Claudia was finally starting to toughen up.)

The group crossed the pass by mid-June – more or less on schedule and nearly four weeks after the portal opening. They figured they’d reach the Great Sand Dunes in a few days, and the vicinity of Pueblo no more than a week after that. All told, they’d made excellent time with (relatively) few mishaps.

The group expected this, given the broad range of outdoors experience held by most of the members.

On the other side of the pass, the trail down was broad and mostly well-groomed, and Henrietta and A.J. noted that it mostly followed the path of US Highway 50, in their world.

About halfway down the side of the mountain, as they neared where Hwy 50 would cross Hwy 285 in their world, Steve looked ahead and noted movement well down the trail. He quickly called everyone’s attention to it. The group glassed it with binoculars, realized a 20-strong troop of U.S. cavalry was moving up toward them about half a mile away, but apparently hadn’t spotted them, yet.

A quick assessment of the situation showed them they had nowhere to go. This part of the trail had a steep slope upwards with sparse trees to their right, and a steep slope down, to the left, that became a precipice 15-20 yards away. The trees on the downward slope were thicker, until they reached the cliff.

The group took a quick look around, and found a place where a stream cascaded down the side of the mountain, which had a more gentle (but still steep) slope up that would allow them to move their animals off the trail. The water also allowed for a thicker patch of trees and, hoping for the best but fearing the worst, the group deployed.

Henrietta and Jimmy lead the horses up the steep slope and left Beatrice and Sunmi in charge of them, and then jogged back down to the trail to wait for the soldiers. Henrietta had all the social skills and Jimmy was native to the region (although he noted that Mormon’s werent exactly popular in the this world’s USA of 1919).

Doc Bascher and Steven joined them there – Steven because he got along (albeit perhaps a bit too well) with the U.S. troops, and Doc Bascher who planned to offer medical services to any of them who needed it, as a way to make friends.

Lest things go pear-shaped, A.J. (with his high-tech, fast-loading Twinbow II), Aurelia (the other face-person, with her more traditional bow) and the two cat-warriors (undiplomatic hand-to-hand killers) took up ambush positions in the trees. A.J. and the cat-warriors took positions not far behind the leaders, while Aurelia set up further back to provide cover for any needed retreat.

Within a few minutes after the PCs got set up, and troop of U.S. Cavalry arrived, and a grizzled sergent rode forward, dismounted, and greeted Steve. He asked the “obvious” man in charge his business and where the group hailed from.

Steve replied they came from the west and, suddenly interested, the sergeant asked them from how far west? Steve acknowledged they’d come from the desert -- which put them firmly in Spanish territory.

The cavalry sergeant frowned, looked around at group he could see, and asked Steve how many of these women were his wives. Steven said only one (and indicated Claudia, about 10 feet back), and that prompted the sergeant to ask their business on the trail.

Growing a bit perturbed at the line the questioning had taken, Doc Bascher stepped up and offered her services, while Henrietta fumbled out an explanation that the group had wanted to get out of the war zone. The sergeant asked if she were some sort of veterinarian, and Doc Bascher replied that she was a medical doctor.

The sergeant blinked in amazement, and asked where she’d gotten her education? Non-plussed, Doc Bascher fumbled out that she’d apprenticed with a doctor on the other side of the mountains, but was fully qualified.

At that point, the sergeant took note of Doc Bascher’s pump-action shotgun, and asked if he could take a look at it. Reluctantly, but trying to maintain the peace, Doc Bascher handed it over to him. The sergeant looked at it, a long moment, and asked why a doctor was traveling with such a firearm – to which the veterinarian replied that she wanted to be prepared for trouble with the “Native Americans.”

The answer flabbergasted the sergeant (“The what, now?”), and he asked Doc Bascher how to load the weapon. The Doc obliged, willingly enough, racked the slide -- and caught the bright green shell as it exited the breach.

The sergeant saw the shiny plastic shell and asked for a closer look. Doc Bascher handed it over to him, and the sergeant fingered curiously, took the shotgun, and then racked the slide, himself.

At that point, Beatrice (who had been listening carefully from a short distance up the slope), came striding down and demanded to know what was happening. Surprised, the cavalry sergent asked her identity and the nature of her business.

(continued....)
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Old 02-02-2018, 07:06 AM   #234
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(...continued)

Somewhat affronted that U.S. soldier would poke his nose into the business of an American citizen, Beatrice replied that she and her group had been doing some trading, and they’d really appreciate it if they could be about their business.

Somewhat annoyed at hearing a different story, the lieutenant came riding up, dismounted, and said he and his men would have to search the cargo in the pack-saddles, to make sure the group weren’t bringing contraband across the disputed border from New Spain. Everybody objected to the request, but decided to comply, and Jimmy and Beatrice brought the horses down.

As some of the soldiers began to paw through the bags and pack-saddles, Beatrice again complained at the delay and the intrusion, while Henrietta and Doc Bascher tried to keep things calm.

Eventually, the annoyed sergeant asked if he could see Beatrice’s rifle and, again without thinking too much about it, Beatrice released the magazine and pulled the bolt back to empty the chamber.

Then she handed over the light-weight .30-06 – topped with modern optics in the form of a variable 20x scope.

Amazed, the sergeant asked where she’d gotten such a weapon? Realizing that things had started to come off the rails, Beatrice said she’d inherited it from her father, who had been a skilled gunsmith. The sergeant asked how long ago she’d gotten it, and Beatrice replied that he’d carried it a long while, and she inherited it after his death, some years back.

The sergeant turned and called out for the lieutenant, who dismounted. The sergeant asked if the officer had ever seen such a thing as the finely-tooled modern rifle with the unusual optical scope – or even such a thing as the spring-loaded magazine that held a number of rounds?

The lieutenant took a quick glance at the bolt-action carbine in his saddle-holster (basically, an early version of something that resembled the Lebel Model 1886), and replied that, no, he’d never seen anything like Beatrice's rifle, before.

At that point, the increasingly suspicious lieutenant said he’d like to have the group accompany the cavalry troop back to their base, but before he could issue any such orders, A.J.’s crossbow bolt split his skull. A second later, Aurelia’s arrow thudded into the chest of the sergeant, who looked down in stunned amazement before he dropped straight down to sit on the hard ground with his legs splayed out.

The scene erupted into chaos as Doc Bascher shouted, “Injuns!” and ran for the undergrowth on the down-slope side of the trail, as Jimmy dove prone behind a tree (which just happened to have a cat-warrior in it and A.J. nearby). Henrietta ran up the slope toward the horses, along with Claudia, and a trooper knocked Beatrice to the ground to protect her, pulled out his side-arm and glanced around wildly to spot the attackers.

****** at being knocked down, Beatrice yelled at the trooper to get off her, and violently pushed him away as Grunt advanced, growling, with his teeth bared. Suddenly realizing that something wasn’t right, the trooper tried to butt-stroke Beatrice with his pistol to subdue her.

The former U.S. Army helicopter mechanic dodged the strike, and responded by fast-drawing her 10 mm semiautomatic and squeezing off three rounds, two of which hit the soldier.

All hell broke loose as frightened horses started to mill around nervously at the noise and U.S. Cavalry soldiers tried to figure out what was going on. One of them saw Beatrice shoot his buddy, and he fired a round into her, which was stopped by the ballistic vest she had on beneath her coat. That guy took an arrow from Aurelia (who was making good rolls, despite the distance).

Basically, the combat was a mess. Keeping his head about him, Jimmy returned fire with his Colt .45 and not his Colt Python .357, while Doc Bascher managed to climb and scramble around enough to partially flank the troopers and get clear shots with her 9 mm automatic.

The combination of a nice scope and a fast-loading crossbow meant A.J.’s lethality was only exceeded by Steven, once the former Marine brought his 21st Century sniper rifle into the play. Aurelia also accounted for four of cavalry troops.

Henrietta’s shots mostly just scared the horses, and a bunch went completely berserk as missed shots started to hit them.

However, what really turned the tide were the cat-warrior in-betweeners. One of them jumped out of his tree, landed with elegant grace about five yards in front of a cavalry trooper, who promptly shot him down.

That sent the second in-betweener berserk, and he charged forward and laid open the throat of a trooper with a single swipe of hands that had suddenly sprouted claws. He ripped into the rib-cage of a second, charged a third and took him down with the help of Grunt, and generally started to draw the pistol fire from every cavalry soldier near him.

That meant the PCs in the party had several rounds in which the cavalry soldiers had bigger concerns and that, combined with the confusion, the body armor, the cover of trees and panicked horses (Beatrice got stepped on a couple of times when an errant bolo thrown by the pacifistic Claudia smacked into one…), and the superior firepower of TL8 weapons (as compared to late TL 5) made all the difference.

However, at one point, an errant shot by Jimmy hit the remaining cat-warrior, which was already wounded. This caused the berzerk killer to howl with rage and charge at the 18-year-old redhead. However, the party managed to gun it down before it reached him. The creature fell unconscious; badly wounded, but not dead.

Steven shot down the last cavalry trooper at a range of nearly 70 yards, as he tried to escape down the trail. The party had taken no more than bumps and bruises – except the cat-warrior in-betweeners, one of which whose body was dead and the other dying.

At Doc Bascher’s insistence, the group didn’t execute any of the cavalry troops who remained alive, but at A.J.’s insistence she cut out all of the bullets the group has put into them. Meanwhile, he and Aurelia recovered their top-flight aluminum-shafted bolts and arrows.

Doc Bascher patched up the cavalry troops as much as she could without using magic, but then left them tied to trees in the wilderness. She didn’t bother to patch up the remaining cat-warrior in-betweener, figuring it had probably abandoned the badly damaged body and she cared little about what happened to a meth dealer and member of a white supremacist biker gang.

That left the group with a quandary. As things stood, any cavalry trooper who lived would finger them for the ambush, and they'd become hunted people with huge prices on their heads. With that in mind, the group decided to make it look like an indian attack.

Doc Bascher, who had experience with this sort of thing since they'd done it to the Angels of Purity, roofied all of the troops who remained alive. As she did so, Henrietta took charge of arranging the misdirecton. She had the group scalp several of the dead troopers, and then the group shot the dead bodies, several times, with the troopers' own rifles, to camouflage the wounds the modern weapons had made.

After that nasty bit of business, Henrietta and Jimmy sorted through the available horses and grabbed the best ones. Doc Bascher pointed out that, until she had time to alter the U.S. Army brands on the horses, they needed to keep the animals out of sight of most people.

The rest of the party focused on stripping the dead U.S. cavalry officers, and took the weapons and other items they found useful. Also, by careful sorting, they managed to put together four full uniforms that showed minimal damage (or blood-stains). A.J. also found some clippings in the lieutenant’s personal effects, from a newspaper called the Denver Daily Herald, that had news about the war.

The pillaging and abuse of the dead took a couple of hours, and the group managed to get moving, again, by mid-afternoon. They made good time and had left the scene of the fight miles behind, by sunset.

The next day started out well enough, but by mid-day A.J., who had been acting as tail-end Charlie, began to suspect someone might be following the group. He found this rather disconcerting, as he knew the U.S. Army had a cavalry base somewhere in the vicinity, but the group didn’t know where.

A.J. jogged forward to share his suspicions, and the group agreed to push ahead faster and try to stay clear of the road – easier, now that they’d made it as far as the foothills, where the terrain was a bit less vertical. Aurelia, who had the best Stealth skill in the group, and Henrietta, who had good wilderness skills, agreed to drop back and try to spot any followers, and rejoin the group, later.

With that, the party picked up the pace, and soon Aurelia found a spot with good visibility of the trail, and went to ground. She and Henrietta waited patiently and, within an hour or so, saw a troop of nine cavalry scouts trotting along the party’s back-trail.

The archaeologist froze as the former high school art teacher swore softly, but let them ride out of sight. The two then decided to give the troopers a few more minutes to get well clear.

However, as they got ready to slip down the back of her hilltop, Aurelia heard a sound in the distance. Freezing again, the two women watched quietly as two of the soldiers they’d left unconscious came jogging along the trail, moving with a swift and graceful economy of motion, despite the blood on their uniforms.

Apparently, the in-betweeners had picked up a couple of new host bodies.

With that, the session ended.

(Well, heck! Hit the character limit with the edits!)
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Old 02-02-2018, 08:22 AM   #235
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Well, it's good that the characters had a combat go their way, especially to this extent. However, I am pretty much befuddled as to why they initiated combat. Their opponents could have had a bit better luck and there would have been some serious injuries if not deaths amongst the party (though I do think the party would have probably won in the end). I see this as having been unnecessary. They also need to get their story straight for when they do run into others.

The modern firearms are very probably going to get them even more unwanted attention. They just look too different. Not all of them, but more than a fair number. What do you have the cav troops outfitted with?

Good write up, looks like they had fun.
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Old 02-02-2018, 08:53 AM   #236
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Well, it's good that the characters had a combat go their way, especially to this extent. However, I am pretty much befuddled as to why they initiated combat. Their opponents could have had a bit better luck and there would have been some serious injuries if not deaths amongst the party (though I do think the party would have probably won in the end). I see this as having been unnecessary. They also need to get their story straight for when they do run into others.
Yeah, not caring enough to follow simple operational security principles, like taking care to avoid openly displaying any gear that will not pass a casual visual inspection as appropriate for the place they are in, and spending at least some effort coordinating their cover stories, is really making it look like the characters don't care about the people they kill.

After all, failing to take elementary precautions to avoid a violent situation where people get hurt is a pretty strong argument that someone really doesn't care who gets hurt. It's worst in the case of those PCs who actively refuse to make minimal concessions to social norms in the society they are visiting, seemingly not caring that this risks their lives, the lives of ther friends, and obviously, the lives of all the people they kill rather than learn to function in a different society.

Their behaviour comes across as, frankly, villainous. They are deliberately prioritising their own pride, vanity and self-importance over people's lives, to the point that they'll ignore cultural norms of other people and act in a way that any reasonable person would know increases the odds of provoking violence. No matter what the PCs might tell themselves, that doesn't come across as empowering or enlightened. It comes across as an unwarranted assumption of moral superiority, cultural chauvinism and an implicit dehumanisation of downtime people.

Every single negative stereotype associated with the 'imperial' elite among benighted savages is on full display. They are doing exactly what United States soldiers have been trying very hard to avoid doing in countries like Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria. And, just like it would do for any modern soldiers who lacked the basic humility and good sense to try to learn cultural sensitivity for their area of operations, their behaviour and attitude results in a total inability to carry out covert operations among the populace* and a lot of unnecessary deaths among the locals.

Lack of Cultural Familiarity kills. Refusing to ackowledging that you lack CF, but rather viewing things so that the locals are just wrong and your superior technology will kill any of them who fail to adapt to your unspoken value system, is what villains do. Don't be villains, PCs. At least try for sympathetic anti-heroes.

*Which is what the PCs are trying to do.
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Old 02-02-2018, 09:29 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by tshiggins View Post
Then she handed over the light-weight .30-06 – topped with modern optics in the form of a 20x scope.
Wait, is that a variable power scope that goes up to x20, like a Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 (available under $500) or is she genuinely carrying around a self-defence firearm topped with a fixed 20x scope?

Realistically, that's going to make her pretty much unable to shoot anything but an immobile target she already knows exactly where to find, in perfect lighting and on days without any mirage. And she wouldn't really need that much magnification for target shooting anyway, unless she was shooting at steel or paper at ranges over 500 yards, most likely at 800-1,000 yards.

Most people carry a spotting scope in that kind of magnification and use something else for their rifle. Especially if it's a light-weight rifle, meant to be handy, useful in the brush, good for hunting and self-defence. If she will be engaging at ranges over 300 yards, she might need powerful optics like the Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50, but if she isn't a trained sniper, she won't have much use for more than 10x magnification for anything but target shooting. And then only to allow her to spot hits on paper or steel at long range.

An old-school 3-9x variable scope is more than enough scope for any kind of shooting she's likely to do with a light-weight rifle meant for self-defence and hunting. And you can get a perfectly adequate one for less than half of what the Vortex Viper goes for, i.e. less than $200.

There's really little reason to buy fixed power scopes in the 21st century, except for specialist uses or ease-of-training considerations for low-power ones, with variable power scopes of 'good enough' quality for most uses available for comparatively less than bargain-basement fixed power scopes used to cost in the 1970s and 1980s.

And if she really feels she needs the high magnification option, she can get 3-18x, 3.5-20x, 4-16x, 4-20x or 4-24x scopes, or even up to 2-20x, 3-30x or 4-40x optics, to suit her budget and desired bulk from a range of manufacturers. Granted, the good optics, especially if they are good, rugged and compact, will be $1,000+ and up to $3,000+, but good enough, for most uses which don't include jumping out of airplanes or swimming through surf to assault a beach, should be available at $600-$900, in the lower magnifcation ranges.
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Old 02-02-2018, 10:57 AM   #238
evileeyore
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Default Re: Campaign: Facets

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Originally Posted by SionEwig View Post
However, I am pretty much befuddled as to why they initiated combat.
Likely because they could see they were about to be disarmed and escorted and would probably never get their gear back without violence or very careful sneakiness.



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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Their behaviour comes across as, frankly, villainous.
Even I disagree with the description of villainous here. They made mistakes, lots of them, but they weren't deliberate mistakes.

I suspect this has been caused by mostly getting lucky so far and not being hammered more thoroughly for their previous social and 'failure to blend' faux pas... and Beatrice who keeps going off the rails and getting into trouble.
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:09 AM   #239
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Default Re: Campaign: Facets

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Even I disagree with the description of villainous here. They made mistakes, lots of them, but they weren't deliberate mistakes.

I suspect this has been caused by mostly getting lucky so far and not being hammered more thoroughly for their previous social and 'failure to blend' faux pas... and Beatrice who keeps going off the rails and getting into trouble.
On the question of intent and mens rea, I am thinking of dolus eventualis, in English often expressed as reckless disregard, or even willful blindness.

A reasonable person would know or should know that their unecessarily risky actions were calculated to bring about the violent deaths of one or more persons. They showed a callous disregard for the consequences to others, all but engineering a situation where they could use their superior technology to killl twenty men, while numerous less violent means of resolution remained possible until the astonishingly culturally-insensitive and cavalier actions of the PCs had ruled them out.

And the actions that I specifically called out as villainous was PCs appearing to deliberately and pridefully refuse to conform to the cultural expectations and values of the place and time where they are operating, even when they must be aware that this will result in violent confrontations. There are times for making a stand against the values of a different culture, even when this means standing out or even forcing a confrontation. When you are unhappy with how you are viewed by strangers or where you land in the social precedence order isn't one of those times. Nor is someone trying to protect you from attack in a way that displeases you. In fact, reacting violently to that is crazy.

That's the exact same thing as people who commit vigilante killings for violating the tenets of their religion, in a country which doesn't have penalties for religious offences, are doing. They are deciding that their culture is so much more right than anyone else could ever be that they are justified for violating the law and committing murder when someone acts against their personal values, even when that person has no reason to share those values.
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:26 AM   #240
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Default Re: Campaign: Facets

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Yeah, not caring enough to follow simple operational security principles, like taking care to avoid openly displaying any gear that will not pass a casual visual inspection as appropriate for the place they are in, and spending at least some effort coordinating their cover stories, is really making it look like the characters don't care about the people they kill.

After all, failing to take elementary precautions to avoid a violent situation where people get hurt is a pretty strong argument that someone really doesn't care who gets hurt. It's worst in the case of those PCs who actively refuse to make minimal concessions to social norms in the society they are visiting, seemingly not caring that this risks their lives, the lives of ther friends, and obviously, the lives of all the people they kill rather than learn to function in a different society.

Their behaviour comes across as, frankly, villainous. They are deliberately prioritising their own pride, vanity and self-importance over people's lives, to the point that they'll ignore cultural norms of other people and act in a way that any reasonable person would know increases the odds of provoking violence. No matter what the PCs might tell themselves, that doesn't come across as empowering or enlightened. It comes across as an unwarranted assumption of moral superiority, cultural chauvinism and an implicit dehumanisation of downtime people.

Every single negative stereotype associated with the 'imperial' elite among benighted savages is on full display. They are doing exactly what United States soldiers have been trying very hard to avoid doing in countries like Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria. And, just like it would do for any modern soldiers who lacked the basic humility and good sense to try to learn cultural sensitivity for their area of operations, their behaviour and attitude results in a total inability to carry out covert operations among the populace* and a lot of unnecessary deaths among the locals.

Lack of Cultural Familiarity kills. Refusing to ackowledging that you lack CF, but rather viewing things so that the locals are just wrong and your superior technology will kill any of them who fail to adapt to your unspoken value system, is what villains do. Don't be villains, PCs. At least try for sympathetic anti-heroes.

*Which is what the PCs are trying to do.
You've put into words (much of what I'd been thinking, just I hadn't had my thoughts fully form yet.

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Likely because they could see they were about to be disarmed and escorted and would probably never get their gear back without violence or very careful sneakiness.
It's possible, how TS described things in person might have been somewhat different from how the description was written. It's just the way things are. However, it's also possible the recon unit just wanted more information from the players. The unit was probably even more curious about the players equipment. If these folks have this stuff is it available to the enemy.



Quote:
Even I disagree with the description of villainous here. They made mistakes, lots of them, but they weren't deliberate mistakes.

I suspect this has been caused by mostly getting lucky so far and not being hammered more thoroughly for their previous social and 'failure to blend' faux pas... and Beatrice who keeps going off the rails and getting into trouble.
You are may be right about use of the word villainous, instead I think that callous might have been a better choice. They don't seem to care anymore about the piles of bodies they are leaving behind them. They certainly do not seem to be thinking about how this (and other similar actions) are going to negatively affect their overall plan.
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