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Old 05-01-2012, 04:01 PM   #31
Crakkerjakk
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Default Re: Forget DF: what about normal melee combat tactics??

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Originally Posted by jacobmuller View Post
I like the initial duel in Princess Bride - the blade work looks more realistic or maybe it's that in scaramouche they were using extra effort a lot.
Both have too much Flynning (attacking of weapons instead of people) for my tastes. Fencing is generally over quick, and is very fast. Check out some olympic matches sometime. Or heck, just google for "fencing" for people who don't have skill 18 or so.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:18 PM   #32
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Default Re: Forget DF: what about normal melee combat tactics??

Thanks for this discussion, everyone--it has been hugely helpful. I clearly have a lot to learn about GURPS melee combat! Also, I see why guns are so popular in the real world--they are so much easier to use in GURPS! :-)
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:16 PM   #33
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Default Re: Forget DF: what about normal melee combat tactics??

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Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
Both have too much Flynning (attacking of weapons instead of people) for my tastes. Fencing is generally over quick, and is very fast. Check out some olympic matches sometime. Or heck, just google for "fencing" for people who don't have skill 18 or so.
Despite their use of real fencing terms and the playfulness with which the characters are treating the fight I'll agree that the Princess Bride fight isn't realistic.

Olympic fencing though? That's just as entirely irrelevant to what an actual sword fight looks like.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:50 AM   #34
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Default Combat, time and Malory --

IIRC in Malory's version of King Arthur two good swordsmen could fight all afternoon without a decisive result.

While this was fiction remember that Malory was writing for an audience in the late 15th century that did know more than a little about hand-to-hand combat. If his work was WAY off line he'd lose his audience. [Said audience would include upper class folks -- lower class ones were less literate. So it's a crowd of nobles, warriors, well-to-do merchants and clerics; and odds are the latter two groups have fighters somewhere in their family or circle of acquaintances.] So I'm inclined to suspect that there was a grain of truth in his writing. Not to mention Sir Thomas M. was a knight himself, so should have had at least training in swordsmanship if not practical experience.

Also -- saw an acquaintance of mine, who is a martial arts student and a member of ARMA, practice a drill from a c. 1500 fechtbuch. Was far faster and more dramatic than anything I've ever seen in a movie.

What I liked most about the Princess Bride clip is that both men started slow and a bit cautious. Makes sense -- you want to know just how good the other guy is before you try to get fast & creative in your own work.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:03 AM   #35
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Default Re: Combat, time and Malory --

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Originally Posted by fredtheobviouspseudonym View Post
IIRC in Malory's version of King Arthur two good swordsmen could fight all afternoon without a decisive result.

While this was fiction remember that Malory was writing for an audience in the late 15th century that did know more than a little about hand-to-hand combat. If his work was WAY off line he'd lose his audience. [Said audience would include upper class folks -- lower class ones were less literate. So it's a crowd of nobles, warriors, well-to-do merchants and clerics; and odds are the latter two groups have fighters somewhere in their family or circle of acquaintances.] So I'm inclined to suspect that there was a grain of truth in his writing. Not to mention Sir Thomas M. was a knight himself, so should have had at least training in swordsmanship if not practical experience.

Also -- saw an acquaintance of mine, who is a martial arts student and a member of ARMA, practice a drill from a c. 1500 fechtbuch. Was far faster and more dramatic than anything I've ever seen in a movie.

What I liked most about the Princess Bride clip is that both men started slow and a bit cautious. Makes sense -- you want to know just how good the other guy is before you try to get fast & creative in your own work.
That does make sense. And I agree that realistic fighting looks at least as cool as most stuff seen in the movies.

On Mallory though (and not that who he was is heavily debated.) since most likely he and his readers knew a thing or two about fighting when the stuff in his books were scaled to heroic reality to show how awesome the people depicted he didn't have to spell it out. His readers would know when he was being realistic and when he was depicted larger than life deeds.
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:46 AM   #36
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Default Re: Combat, time and Malory --

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Originally Posted by fredtheobviouspseudonym View Post
IIRC in Malory's version of King Arthur two good swordsmen could fight all afternoon without a decisive result.
Based on modern combat sports, seems unlikely unless they're spending most of the fight staring at one another (cardio is a big issue, and no way does a medieval man in armor have the endurance of an unencumbered modern athlete), and are wearing enough armor that a hit won't do anything significant (once two people engage, it's exceptional to go more than a few seconds without a hit).

Last edited by Anthony; 05-04-2012 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:49 PM   #37
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Default Re: Combat, time and Malory --

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
. . . and are wearing enough armor that a hit won't do anything significant (once two people engage, it's exceptional to go more than a few seconds without a hit).
I suspect it's the latter. A lot of bruising, perhaps some cuts, but no "punch through to the vitals" damage.

Of course, Malory often had his fights end with a good smite to the "brain pan." Lights out, game over, go back to the Big Circular Table and tell the story . . .
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