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Old 05-08-2017, 11:08 AM   #81
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Post Apocalyptic Economics

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Originally Posted by tshiggins View Post
Um, no.

For a market to exist, at all, those who participate must trust that their mere presence will not trigger an attack on them by those who see this as just an opportunity to kill them and take their stuff. Once the market can be established, at all, then issues such as reputation and recognition of long-term mutual advantage can take place.
You've got the order backwards. The way you generate a market in which participants trust that their mere presence will not trigger an attack is through reputation and recognition of long-term mutual advantage.
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:45 PM   #82
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Default Re: Post Apocalyptic Economics

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You've got the order backwards. The way you generate a market in which participants trust that their mere presence will not trigger an attack is through reputation and recognition of long-term mutual advantage.
How can people learn of each other's reputations if they don't communicate? How can people communicate if they don't share a language in common, as well as a common set of cultural concepts -- including, what comprises a 'good' reputation?

Is not a shared language and shared cultural mores the foundation of trust, that allows for the creation of all sorts of relationships, including mutually beneficial economic relationships?

Once trust exists, then and only then can people start to engage in behavior that builds "reputations" and allows them to think in terms of long term benefits, rather than short-term tactical advantages.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:52 PM   #83
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Default Re: Post Apocalyptic Economics

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How can people learn of each other's reputations if they don't communicate?
They try it out -- someone from group A goes to meet group B, and if he returns in good health, perhaps they're friendly. It's a good use for PCs (here, stuff some expendable people in the mouth of the monster. Does it chew?)
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:54 AM   #84
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Default Re: Post Apocalyptic Economics

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So what should loner PCs carry to exchange with semi-established communities?
RPGs being what they are, the PCs will probably be doing the most hazardous end of the salvaging of pre-lapsarian material. That or providing services that the communities can't or won't undertake themselves but can afford to commission disposable drifters to perform.
PCs who build a reputation over time then get to become less liminal and be adopted into the community by degrees. Some may even become leaders.
Again, all classic RPG stuff.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:33 PM   #85
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Default Re: Post Apocalyptic Economics

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Originally Posted by tshiggins View Post
Is not a shared language and shared cultural mores the foundation of trust, that allows for the creation of all sorts of relationships, including mutually beneficial economic relationships?
History shows that there's a LOT of trade that happens without a shared language. It leads to the creation of things like pidgin languages or specialized trade languages, in order to facilitate trade... but the trade comes first.

The foundation of trust is meeting someone and not hitting them, not taking their stuff, and generally not being an *******.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:22 PM   #86
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Default Re: Post Apocalyptic Economics

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RPGs being what they are, the PCs will probably be doing the most hazardous end of the salvaging of pre-lapsarian material. That or providing services that the communities can't or won't undertake themselves but can afford to commission disposable drifters to perform.
PCs who build a reputation over time then get to become less liminal and be adopted into the community by degrees. Some may even become leaders.
Again, all classic RPG stuff.
Sounds awesome. I suppose you would want one of the PCs to be fairly charismatic in order to make that work.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:27 PM   #87
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Default Re: Post Apocalyptic Economics

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Sounds awesome. I suppose you would want one of the PCs to be fairly charismatic in order to make that work.
It helps, but you can build a reputation for being competent and reliable without having any charisma to speak of.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:42 PM   #88
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Default Re: Post Apocalyptic Economics

I suppose so, but then what is your advantage versus the other drifter-scroungers?
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Old 05-10-2017, 03:09 AM   #89
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Default Re: Post Apocalyptic Economics

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History shows that there's a LOT of trade that happens without a shared language. It leads to the creation of things like pidgin languages or specialized trade languages, in order to facilitate trade... but the trade comes first.
I seem to recall something called "dumb barter" whereby peoples that don't share a common language can trade by leaving goods out at a meeting point - the other party then leaves their counter offer out, whereon the first party adjusts their initial bid - repeat until both sides are content and/or one party takes one of the sets of goods and walks off. Future trades dependant on mutual satisfaction. Note this even works with a gift based culture - who may simply walk off with the initial bid, but can be expected to reappear later with a "gift in return".

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I suppose so, but then what is your advantage versus the other drifter-scroungers?
Generally being in the right place at the right time - that is, when the GM has an adventure that needs to be run, the PCs are the people on the spot. Charisma will speed the process up, but even a party with the social skills of monkeys should be able to get themselves re-hired if they deliver results ... or build up a trading relationship if they repeatedly drag useful stuff out of the wilderness.
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Old 05-10-2017, 03:50 AM   #90
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Default Re: Post Apocalyptic Economics

The markets in New Guinea (a place with a lot of languages) have a system where everything is divided up into portions of equal value (10c worth when I was there) and trade happens that way.
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