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Old 06-19-2021, 02:49 PM   #11
PBarone714
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Glendale, Calif. near L.A.
Default Re: Fencer two weapons question - 2 sabers?

A saber is a FENCING WEAPON and Fencers get the Two Weapons talent, so I would say that a Fencer should be allowed to fence with two sabers.
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Old 06-19-2021, 04:28 PM   #12
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Fencer two weapons question - 2 sabers?

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Originally Posted by PBarone714 View Post
A saber is a FENCING WEAPON and Fencers get the Two Weapons talent, so I would say that a Fencer should be allowed to fence with two sabers.
No, they don't get the Two weapon talent, they get it with a limitation. And they can buy the talent for real if they want to use it with two sabers.

The problem is the wording referring to how it was taught historically, so if you want to change what was historically available to fencers in your world, that would be fine and still RAW or at least RAI.

There is also the game balance issue of Sabers being a better weapon than a rapier. 1 higher ST, but 1.5 higher damage, and a greater spread with the 2d-2. And cost-wise it is pretty good too, compared to a rapier. This is important if you consider master-crafted weapon costs.
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Old 06-20-2021, 03:20 AM   #13
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Fencer two weapons question - 2 sabers?

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Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
While the text may not state this outright, the intent seems clear to me... the two-weapon ability built into the FENCING talents is limited to one primary long blade (rapier or saber) and a short off-hand blade (main gauche only, though I would probably allow a long dagger or cloak as well).

If you want to wield two weapons of equal size and weight (and other combinations) simultaneously, you need to purchase the TWO-WEAPONS talent.
I have a very hard time seeing the intent that you describe.
You have two explicit examples, Rapier+MG, and Two rapiers.
This explicitly contradicts your intention. And on top of that, they state that the intent is to replicate historical techniques.

In light of that, you could argue that the intent is to allow for all historically correct fencing techniques, be it a dagger, a small buckler, or a cloak in the left hand. But your claim that the intent is one long blade and one short seems very far-fetched to me.
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Old 06-20-2021, 02:22 PM   #14
TippetsTX
 
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Default Re: Fencer two weapons question - 2 sabers?

The text of the TWO WEAPONS talents literally starts with "This is the knowledge of the Florentine style of fighting...". In other words, paired rapiers. This language pre-dates the new FENCING talents so I'm always going to give it more weight in how I choose to interpret things.

It's also interesting to note that the mention of "two rapiers" further down in the description also came from the original version of the TWO WEAPONS talent, but FENCING was a much different animal at the time. The new language has been tweaked a bit, but it still feels like a holdover from the previous version. For me, this is an example of poor integration of the new FENCING concept with the old TWO WEAPONS mechanics. Most of the ACTs in the Legacy edition could've benefited from more polishing and playtesting IMO. The conflation/overlap that some are now trying to enforce between the two talents is what feels like a stretch TBH.

That said, I think whatever approach works for you and your game is fine. There's alot of stuff I do differently that is much further removed from RAW than this is so I'm hardly the arbiter of the 'right' way to play (and I would never want to be).
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Last edited by TippetsTX; 07-02-2021 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 07-02-2021, 01:53 AM   #15
RichardTog
 
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Default -

Most likely. I think we only ever saw it being used the one time when Impy ordered Baltars execution. Dont recall ever seeing it at any other time.
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Old 07-25-2021, 06:42 AM   #16
JustAnotherJarhead
 
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Location: Cali
Default Re: Fencer two weapons question - 2 sabers?

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Originally Posted by PBarone714 View Post
A saber is a FENCING WEAPON and Fencers get the Two Weapons talent, so I would say that a Fencer should be allowed to fence with two sabers.
I already answered this above.

Fencing clearly addresses this under the Talents for Fencing and Two weapons, you can not use two sabers, end of discussion. It's right in the book.
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Old 07-25-2021, 02:07 PM   #17
timm meyers
 
Join Date: May 2020
Default Re: Fencer two weapons question - 2 sabers?

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Originally Posted by PBarone714 View Post
A saber is a FENCING WEAPON and Fencers get the Two Weapons talent, so I would say that a Fencer should be allowed to fence with two sabers.
A "fencing" saber is basically a heavier rapier and not a wider flat edged blade used by cavalry etc. So I believe the semantics/definitions of the words are leading to confusion. The intent in the rules seems pretty clear to me that Fencing is a unique/seperate skill based on the use of lite slim weapons and give players the ability to model a 4 musketeer style character off of etc.
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Old 07-14-2023, 04:25 PM   #18
Thrag
 
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Default Re: Fencer two weapons question - 2 sabers?

From the Fencer talent (ITL40), "... fencing weapons (are): rapier, sabre, and main-gauche". Anywhere you see 'fencing weapons' referred to in the text, you should be able to replace it with this list. In other words, the Two weapons bullet (in the Fencer talent entry) would read: "... as defined below, for rapier, sabre, and main-gauche only."

Although the rules are derived from 'real life', game mechanics are defined by the wording of the rules.

I see from discussion about different version of the rules text ('old' vs. 'new'), there might be consistency errors. For the Two Weapons and Fencer talents to be consistent, there must be a rule clarification such as "... as defined below, for rapier and main-gauche only" (omitting 'saber').

I don't think the question is if you CAN use the Fencer talent with two sabers (thematically of conceptually), but if the rules EXPLICITLY state that you can (or cannot). Given the current wording of the two talents (as explained above), this is not true without an official rule clarification.
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Old 07-16-2023, 05:58 AM   #19
David Bofinger
 
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Default Re: Fencer two weapons question - 2 sabers?

The rules are obviously contradictory but it hardly seems worth a house rule since I think the advanced combat talents are generally not working well. Among many other problems, Fencing is incompatible with increasing your ST. So the character gets forced onto a gamey path.

Would it be good if Fencing was usable as long as your adjDX was at least X larger than the strength requirement of the weapon? And did something completely different?
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Old 07-16-2023, 06:55 AM   #20
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Fencer two weapons question - 2 sabers?

I would've just rolled Fencer into Sword Expertise.
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