10-19-2014, 10:09 PM | #61 |
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
Then make is ST11 or ST12. But it's pretty clear that making it ST17 is not going to get you back to the ST9-13 range that some people prefer. Benchmarks matter in GURPS. Perhaps pegging them to some non-canonical (and ancillary) stats is not going to help you arrive at the right place. I'm sure Doug could give us some other ways to figure ST = pull weight than the ones in The Deadly Spring. I'm sure he probably considered some, at least. So yeah, if an army of ST17 longbowmen seems dumb and ruins the game...don't do that.
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10-19-2014, 10:11 PM | #62 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
Sure, player and GM comfort matter more than anything else, regardless of the personal views of those of us outside looking in.
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10-19-2014, 11:50 PM | #63 | ||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
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My tweak is ultimately just trained ST and the lifting skill in combination. Quote:
I don't think Acc. was dropped in DS (but was in the LT "harsh realism" side bar) Quote:
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Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-20-2014 at 03:31 AM. |
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10-19-2014, 11:58 PM | #64 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
Well TBF it would be two arm pulling, but I agree its not what every ST10 person could do automatically, but I certainly wouldn't have an issue with a trained archer doing it. Which I guess is what this has been about.
Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-20-2014 at 02:33 AM. |
10-20-2014, 12:04 AM | #65 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
One arm pulling, the other pushing. They aren't working together. Each must hold 100 pounds just in different ways/directions.
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10-20-2014, 12:19 AM | #66 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
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Actually thinking about this for those that don't like an automatic trained skill bonus you could also do the whole thing as a technique. Where your level in in the technique is the effective ST you draw with. So it would say default to your archery/crossbow effective skill (based of ST not DX) of -3, and could be bought up to effective Skill. And even surpassed with the relevant technique mastery perk. (Both technique and technique mastery perk could be made available to certain archery traditions). I haven't play tested this so that default might be bit harsh for lower skill archers (you could just say ST sets a lower minimum draw ST) |
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10-20-2014, 12:25 AM | #67 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
I like the use of Perks, because not all archers focus on strength, and because high skill is already highly rewarded in GURPS combat. In the Combat Laboratory the GM had to impose a skill cap because "much higher skill than anyone else" proved to be a winning strategy.
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The idea that the Mary Rose bows are the model for all soldiers' bows in history is wrong, but a game needs to be able to represent what made them different from other types of bow, because "heroic archer with a mighty bow" is an excellent archetype.
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10-20-2014, 01:18 AM | #68 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
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Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-20-2014 at 02:39 AM. |
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10-20-2014, 01:34 AM | #69 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
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The arms extend in different ways it's true, and you don't hold heavy bows at full draw for this very reason, but this is almost a whole body action. There are contemporary accounts of this ("leaning into the bow") and heavy bow users today do it too. I'm not saying its the same as a two handed lift, in fact it's an action that's not much like a lift at all. However that difference is part of the point being made about training. The drawing action is not one that comes up very often outside bows (and chest expanders or gyms). We all lift things from time to time, but we rarely make the drawing action, which is probably why practice and experience (i.e skill in GURPS) can make such a difference. Douglas Cole pinned the draw at 2.5x BL (and 8x for spanning a crossbow, same as two handed overhead lift), I'd be interested in his thinking on that. Last edited by Tomsdad; 10-20-2014 at 06:51 AM. |
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10-20-2014, 08:37 AM | #70 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Typical ST for a war bow?
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archery, bow, deadly spring, draw weight, pyramid 3/33, strongbow |
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