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Old 04-24-2014, 04:35 PM   #1
dataweaver
 
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Default Wildcard Powers: underpriced?

In GURPS Supers for 4e, there’s an option for “Wildcard Powers”: in effect, set aside a pool of points that can be used as an Ability that fits the power’s concept, and pay four times the cost. Is it an appropriate cost? Unless I’ve missed something, a Wildcard Power is essentially the same as a Cosmic Modular Ability, except that it usually (but not always) has a more limited scope. But the latter costs 10× the pool’s size.

So: Are Wildcard Powers underpriced? Is the Cosmic Modular Ability overpriced? Or is there something that breaks the analogy between the two such that both of their existing prices make sense?
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wildcard Powers: underpriced?

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
So: Are Wildcard Powers underpriced? Is the Cosmic Modular Ability overpriced? Or is there something that breaks the analogy between the two such that both of their existing prices make sense?
Modular abilities can be used for skills, which is the only reason they're actually worth x10 (in fact, probably worth more than x10; a 1 point modular ability is pretty much '+4 to all defaults anywhere').
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wildcard Powers: underpriced?

Also, Modular doesn't have to "fit the power's concept". The points can be reconfigured to _anything_. Whether or not "Accessibility (Only Abilities that Fit My Power Theme)" is worth -60% is debatable, I suppose.

And in turn that probably depends on the concept. Any good munchkin will propose something like "control of spacetime" or "probability control" to claim any ability imaginable, quite a bit more broad than a concept like "the Human Torch" or "Weather Control".
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Wildcard Powers: underpriced?

Note that Wildcard powers are quadruple cost, but your point remains. They are on the cheap side, but they're an optional rule that is intended for more wide-open games. It probably isn't reasonable to expect Modular Abilities to compete with them on an perfectly even basis. Cosmic MAs can, of course, mimic any skill or mental ad, while the Wildcard power 'stunt' has to tie in to the base ability in a way that the GM agrees is plausible, and usually must be used while using the base ability.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:01 PM   #5
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Default Re: Wildcard Powers: underpriced?

In addition to the restrictions already mentioned here, please note that the abilities "purchased" with the wildcard power must not only make sense as an extension of the base ability, but they must make sense when used with the base ability. For example, you couldn't use Insubstantiality! to give yourself DR justified as increased density, because "I reverse my Insubstantiality" isn't allowed -- you must be able to use the new abilities with your Insubstantiality.

I see your point about the cost factor, but it's also important not to underestimate just how many implied limitations are in play here.
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: Wildcard Powers: underpriced?

Can a wildcard power be split? If not, bear in mind that modular abilities have a slot cost and a pool cost, and those costs are separable; a 20 point modular ability with a single slot is a lot cheaper than a 20 pt cosmic modular ability.
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wildcard Powers: underpriced?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Also, Modular doesn't have to "fit the power's concept". The points can be reconfigured to _anything_. Whether or not "Accessibility (Only Abilities that Fit My Power Theme)" is worth -60% is debatable, I suppose.
Given how broad some power themes can be, that’s not necessarily much of a restriction.

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And in turn that probably depends on the concept. Any good munchkin will propose something like "control of spacetime" or "probability control" to claim any ability imaginable, quite a bit more broad than a concept like "the Human Torch" or "Weather Control".
I’ve long since decided that pricing with munchkins in mind is a fool’s errand. And on that note, I would expect a Cosmic Modular Ability’s uses to be restricted by the concept, too, even though that’s not explicitly included in its write-up: as I see things, all uses of every trait on the character sheet must conform to the character concept; otherwise, you’re not roleplaying.

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
Cosmic MAs can, of course, mimic any skill or mental ad, while the Wildcard power 'stunt' has to tie in to the base ability in a way that the GM agrees is plausible, and usually must be used while using the base ability.
True points. However, a Cosmic MA needs to take an Enhancement that massively increases its cost in order to do anything that isn’t mental; and the fact that the added ability of the Wildcard Power can be used alongside its base ability is at least as much of an argument for a higher multiplier as the fact that it must be used in tandem argues for a lower multiplier.
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wildcard Powers: underpriced?

Okay, the way wildcard powers work in Supers is equivalent to buying the base power (using a wildcard power as something else doesn't prevent using the base power) plus a modular ability with 1 slot (typically cost [5]) and X points (where X = base power cost) of additional abilities (cost [5X], as there are no special limits on changing it) with the enhancements Physical (+50%), advantages only (-10%), trait-limited (-40% or so), for a total cost of roughly 2 + 5X, suggesting wildcard should be x6 rather than x4.

However, I would argue that it's modular abilities that are miscosted, not wildcard powers. If you delete the 'physical' enhancement (which is IMO utterly stupid) the costs wind up comparable.
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wildcard Powers: underpriced?

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Originally Posted by dataweaver View Post
I’ve long since decided that pricing with munchkins in mind is a fool’s errand.
Not so much a single predetermined fixed price to head off munchkins, but a reminder that the discount would really be on a case-by-case basis. If your theme is The Power Cosmic or Green Lantern, there's not much of a difference between a Cosmic MA and a Wildcard ability.

But PK has a good point, too. A Wildcard ability isn't a free-floating pool of points. Not only does it have to fit your overall concept, but it has to fit with the description of some particular base ability. The example in Supers is Flight! (not Fire! or Weather!, etc), and so you need some justification for Flight being able to help do whatever ability you're trying to wildcard. (The given example is adding Lifting Strength by using your mighty wings to help.) That's even narrower than fitting your overall concept. Unless the base ability is Modular Ability, it might be hard to turn into any other desired ability.
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Old 04-24-2014, 08:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wildcard Powers: underpriced?

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
But PK has a good point, too. A Wildcard ability isn't a free-floating pool of points. Not only does it have to fit your overall concept, but it has to fit with the description of some particular base ability. The example in Supers is Flight! (not Fire! or Weather!, etc), and so you need some justification for Flight being able to help do whatever ability you're trying to wildcard. (The given example is adding Lifting Strength by using your mighty wings to help.) That's even narrower than fitting your overall concept. Unless the base ability is Modular Ability, it might be hard to turn into any other desired ability.
Yes, exactly. You have to build the wildcard on top of a particular advantage, and explain how that advantage could make the wildcard application work; and you have to be using the advantage when you use the wildcard application. Hawkman can lift an armored car into the air, but lots of luck picking it up if he's on the ground!

And, well, Green Lantern's base advantage is Modular Ability (Cosmic). I think as a GM I'd disallow a wildcard power based on MA. It seems inherently abusive. Or maybe redundant.

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