Psionics in 4th Ed: I'm not getting it...

[smurf]

3rd ed to 4th ed needs a bit of thought.

What I noticed with the 3rd ed is the umbrella power. Buy x and get abc to go with it. Time to think did a 3rd ed character pick up some skills because they were cheap on the list.

4th ed is simplier, that is it fits with the rest of rules instead of being 'outside of them.

Linking powers will make them cheaper.

Telereceive, Telesend, Mind Reading, Mind Probe, Suggest (Powers), Mind Control, Afflictions (for Mind blow and stab but it can be done alot better without causing damage), also innate attack.

Get used to enhancements and limitations.

Consider malediction but that will bump the price up.

PK is similar too: TK you can lift stuff, even your self, if you want a 3rd ed levitation - choose flight. Remember the range is 10 yards and you may need to increase it to 20, or 50... 100yards is a serious power. Consider Magneto, he has huge TK ST, only metal, big range, big area, super ST (to lift really big stuff) and do multiple tasks. You could be looking at a power that is several hundred points.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Do you mean Gurps Psionic Powers? There is no 4e Gurps Psionics.

Sure there is. In GURPS 4th Edition, the rules for psionics are as follows:

Power Modifier, Limitation, -10%.

(I hope SJ Games won't ban me for leaking information from the core rule books!)

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by davidtmoore

Generally, IQ. The advantages in GURPS Characters state whether a roll is required (or you can take a limitation to require a roll); by adding the -10% power limitation, you accept some restrictions to the power (can be opposed by "antipsi" powers and technology), but the relevant Power Talent adds to the IQ roll.

Originally Posted by davidtmoore

Worked example 2: Bob is a telekinetic. Among his powers is Flight (Psychokinetic -10%, Requires IQ roll -10%) [32]. He has IQ 11 and the Psychokinetic Power Talent 4 [20]. Flying is normally automatic, but with the Requires IQ Roll limitation (Powers, p. 112), he needs to make an IQ roll to take off, and an additional roll every minute to stay airborne. However, as his Flight ability is part of the Psychokinesis Power, he adds his Power Talent to his IQ, and rolls at 15.

So even if the IQ roll is solely due to the "Requires IQ Roll" Limitaiton, Talent may still be added to that roll?

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Mgellis

Minor point...

A few abilities don't use skills, but these are abilities that are totally passive where there is no fine control. For example, hyperspectral vision does not have a skill because you just turn it on and you can see in an extended spectrum. Seeing is not a skill. :)

Shapechange/Morph has no skill roll, which has always bothered me a lot. It is also a clear indicator that the GURPS Powers system, with Power Talents, had not been thought of when GURPS Characters was written.

For shapechange powers, though, Power Talent does add to Acting and Disguise rolls, according to the RAW, so there is some benefit from Talent. But it's still bad design to not have a built-in roll required (for IQ or Will), by default, for an actively used Advantage.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by kdtipa

I saw a special on british sniper training... and based on that... "seeing" is a skill. Those guys could spot ridiculous things under insane circumstances. It was the trained ability to see things other people would not notice.

And I can see a need for a skill level for hyperspectral vision... it could be your perception value with that particular sense. Just a thought.

GURPS has Observation for the trained perceptiveness of normal senses.

I've got XenoPerception skills in Sagatafl, to represent characters who have learned to make use of senses not normally available to their species, such as infravision or ultaviolet vision, or infra- or ultrahearing. You could easily add something similar in GURPS, although it's not necessarily the best choice to represent such acquired ability via the game mechanic of Skills.

I think the main problem with exotic senses, senses that your brain is not evolutonarily hardwired to interpret, is to understand them, so it makes sense that there should be some kind of IQ roll (nor PER) involved when you gain a new sense, e.g. via a a temporary spell effect.

A simple mechanic would require an IQ roll for a exotic sense that makes some kind of intuitive sense, such as infravision ("I can see how warm things are") but IQ-3 for exotic senses that doesn't make this kind of intuitive sense (basically ultravision, infrahearing, ultrahearing, and most other such things).

Then, allow a series of levelled Perks to give bonuses to these rolls, with the "epitomal" Perk removing the need for a roll entirely. You should probably have about 2 Perks per merely exotic sense, and 3 Perks per weird sense (arguably, weird senes aren't weird to someone with sufficient understanding of physics, but I tend to look at things from a medieval perspective).

[D10]

Now that I know the psi powers work like that I think im not gonna change for 4e anytime soon, so confortable with my house ruled 3e, feels like 4e would basically cause more trouble than its worth, not mentioning the moneraty costs =/

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by D10

Now that I know the psi powers work like that I think im not gonna change for 4e anytime soon, so confortable with my house ruled 3e, feels like 4e would basically cause more trouble than its worth, not mentioning the moneraty costs =/

Thats too bad. 4e is a lot cleaner all around.
3e bundled a lot of things and it made for some convoluted builds trying to work out new advantages or work with limited versions.
Combat has more options as well.

[D10]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Thats too bad. 4e is a lot cleaner all around.
3e bundled a lot of things and it made for some convoluted builds trying to work out new advantages or work with limited versions.
Combat has more options as well.

Can you sum those ? I dont know the specifics, I know PD is less OPed to active defenses, I wanted to know more about that, atm its the only thing that seems kinda unbalanced.

But I dont really have a problem with lots of stuff.
I use ST as HP and HT as fatigue, I use will as a separate atribute, and many house rules regarding psionics, such as aura being a esp skill, and healing being a biopsionics skill, I suppose it could easily be done in 4e, since its main purpose is to be modular, but what exacly are the advantages ?

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Thats too bad. 4e is a lot cleaner all around.
3e bundled a lot of things and it made for some convoluted builds trying to work out new advantages or work with limited versions.
Combat has more options as well.

I know I was a hold out on embracing 4th ed. as well. But eventually after sitting down to read it, I realized that it fixed a number of issue I didn't like and made things better that I hadn't realized needed fixing. It's much cleaner and unified; exactly what I want Gurps to be.
Not perfect of course, but all around better than 3rd ed.

But no one will denigrate those that prefer the older version. The purpose of the game is to have fun after all.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I know I was a hold out on embracing 4th ed. as well. But eventually after sitting down to read it, I realized that it fixed a number of issue I didn't like and made things better that I hadn't realized needed fixing. It's much cleaner and unified; exactly what I want Gurps to be.
Not perfect of course, but all around better than 3rd ed.

But no one will denigrate those that prefer the older version. The purpose of the game is to have fun after all.

I agree with both statements.
I hesitated on 4E also, big expense buying those core books and I had a LOT of 3e material. Pretty much bought everything that ever came out for 3e but after a move where I lost almost all my gaming materials in a box that just vanished I started over with 4e.
A few things still trip me up as I think of the 3e rules but the change was very positive IMHO.