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Old 03-16-2024, 09:15 PM   #1
Astromancer
 
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Basically, having read that Galdalf had the Ring of Fire, and that that ring could rekindle hearts, it occurred to me that the Ring of Fire was also the Ring of Hope. Now Tolkien had used the theme of the three virtues (Faith, Hope, and Charity) in several non published works before. And the Fire equals Hope idea seems to have been one he was fond of.

All this leads to my question. Which virtues were connected to the Rings of Water and Air? Both Eldron and Galadriel could be connected to either Faith or Charity. Are there any clues that could clear up which is which.
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Old 03-16-2024, 09:35 PM   #2
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All this leads to my question. Which virtues were connected to the Rings of Water and Air? Both Eldron and Galadriel could be connected to either Faith or Charity. Are there any clues that could clear up which is which.
Water is Charity because of the bounty of good things that come from the water.

I'd have better luck making Fire equal Faith and Air equal Hope. Fire provides the Light that defies the Darkness and Air brings messages that inspire Hope.
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Old 03-16-2024, 09:42 PM   #3
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If that connection existed then Galadriel's "water" ring would be connected to Charity. She was after all, the one who was handing out all of those gifts to her visitors. She used her ring to create a zone of enchanted woodland which resisted the entropy of the world around it.

Elrond's "air" ring would therefore be "Faith", the highest and most intangible virtue. He used his ring to ensure that Rivendell could not be found by those he did not wish to find it.

Also the Arkenstone is Greed and the One Ring is Pride.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 03-16-2024 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 03-16-2024, 10:36 PM   #4
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Fire = Hope is exactly the sort of allegorical technique Tolkien didn't like.

If we assume that the way we see the Three Rings being used is what they were designed to do specifically, then yes, Gandalf uses the Ring of Fire to kindle hearts, though you couldn't point to a specific instance of Gandalf kindling someone's heart and say "That was Gandalf using the Ring."

Galadriel is quite informative about what her Ring, the Ring of Water, is used for. It preserves Lothlorien in an unchanging state, it causes non-elves to experience the passing of time the way elves do. Galadriel's use of her Ring is the least "good" of the uses of the Three Rings, as she mainly uses it to stave off the natural change and decay of the world, keeping things the way she would have them be instead of how they are.

We learn very little about Elrond's Ring of Air. I suspect it has something to do with keeping Rivendell hidden (valley or no, it couldn't be THAT hard to follow the eponymous river until you found it), and I wouldn't be surprised if he uses it to command the Bruinen. Maybe Gandalf's white horses in the water was him using his Ring in concert with Elrond's. But we really have no data to go on.

Faith and Charity? I don't see it.
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Old 03-16-2024, 10:42 PM   #5
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Hope was Gandalf's personality not the ring's particular. His mission before visiting Middle Earth was giving good visions to the Children of Eru (including presumably Dwarves and Ents).
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Old 03-17-2024, 07:05 AM   #6
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We learn very little about Elrond's Ring of Air. I suspect it has something to do with keeping Rivendell hidden (valley or no, it couldn't be THAT hard to follow the eponymous river until you found it), and I wouldn't be surprised if he uses it to command the Bruinen. Maybe Gandalf's white horses in the water was him using his Ring in concert with Elrond's. But we really have no data to go on.
Elrond is a master healer. Perhaps his Ring aids him in that. Also, Rivendell is called the Last Home. So he heals more that the body; he provides renewal of the spirit and rest for the soul. It seems to me that faith could be attributed to his Ring.
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Old 03-17-2024, 07:55 AM   #7
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I'm inclined to agree with Stormcrow about Tolkien not being much inclined to moral allegory.

When I ran a campaign set in Middle-Earth, I started out with Narya being the Ring of Fire. It went with Gandalf's skill at spells of fire and light, and with his ability to rekindle others' spirits, and even with his love of fireworks. That suggested elemental associations for the other two. I made Nenya the Ring of Water, able to preserve the actual life of the Elder Days; and I made Vilya the Ring of Air, able to preserve the language and lore of the past, which seemed to fit with Elrond being the greatest loremaster of Middle-Earth.
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Old 03-17-2024, 08:24 AM   #8
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Elrond is a master healer. Perhaps his Ring aids him in that. Also, Rivendell is called the Last Home. So he heals more that the body; he provides renewal of the spirit and rest for the soul. It seems to me that faith could be attributed to his Ring.
Healing and rest of the spirit is a different thing than faith. And just as with the other things I mentioned, we have no way to attribute his skill here to his ring. I have no doubt his ring plays a part in his skill at healing, but we don't know that in the way we're explicitly told about how Gandalf and Galadriel use their rings.

There is one very important way that Elrond is associated with faith. It is Elrond and Gandalf's plan that sends the One Ring on its way without any idea of how to accomplish the quest. They are relying on estel, on hope, but hope of the kind that does not come facts (that's amdir) but from a sense that things will happen the way they should. Estel is closely akin to faith, and Elrond is the master-planner of estel. Whether he has the insight into estel and what should happen because he has his ring is another unknown data point.

(It's also possible, and I think more likely, that Elrond is simply wiser than Galadriel, and is in closer communion with the Valar than she is, and this is where he gets his foresight and knowledge.)

Ultimately, I'm not even sure that the Three Rings each have different powers. They might, or they might just be used differently by different bearers. Galadriel wants to rule an Elf-kingdom as a last holdout of the ancient Elf-kingdoms of the Elder Days, so she uses Nenya to preserve and resist time. Gandalf is the Grey, and his job is to go among the Free Peoples to help them resist the Shadow, so he uses Narya to inspire those he meets. Elrond, unlike Galadriel, is willing to let time and change happen in Middle-earth, but he remembers, so he (presumably) uses Vilya to preserve memory in Rivendell and heal weaknesses in Middle-earth.
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Old 03-17-2024, 08:37 AM   #9
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... from a sense that things will happen the way they should.
Isn't that faith?
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Old 03-17-2024, 09:12 AM   #10
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Isn't that faith?
As I said: "Estel is closely akin to faith."
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