Horses as NPCs (of sorts)

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

-animal handling

As an IQ/Hard skill primarily focused on training and caring for other animals, I'm not sure it's particularly useful for animal characters. Training associated with humans herding animals is perhaps better modeled by Professional Skills (e.g., Herding), which can be optionally specialized by species (e.g., Shepherding).

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

-survival

Absolutely vital to wild animals, along with Area Knowledge of the animal's territory. Survival + AK as a complementary skill is how wild animals make their living.

For urban scavengers, substitute Urban Survival. For animals, that means where the best garbage is, places to avoid because of humans or predators, and why chewing on electric cables is a bad idea. Animals who both scavenge and survive on natural foods have both.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

-body language

This is probably at a default unless the animal has received training or has unusual experience. For example, a dog is going to be able to instinctively understand canine body language in the same way that humans understand basic human expressions and postures.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

-dancing

Appropriate for trained animals, but possibly just a Trick (i.e., a perk) or part of the Acrobatics skill. For example, a dog who's just able to bounce up and down on its hind legs might only have a Perk.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

-group performance

Since Group Performance is an IQ/A skill that covers getting a group of performers coordinated, it's unlikely that animals will have this skill. Coordinating instinctive behaviors for pack or herd animals is more likely an application of Leadership.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

--immoveable stance

Cinematic, but potentially appropriate for massy critters like pigs who have a low center of gravity. In silly campaigns, it's appropriate for house pets with the ability to make themselves impossible to pick up or shift.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

-intimidation

Absolutely. It's another "go to" skill for "hijacker" predators and scavengers, who steal kills from other critters, e.g., lions or hyenas.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

-'pulling'

A variation on Lifting, possibly PS (Draft Animal). Also appropriate for humans who engage in "strongman" feats which involve pulling or pushing heavy loads and manual laborers who shove or pull things like pallet jacks or mine carts. Might be a HT/E skill, since it has fewer applications than Lifting.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

--light walk

Another cinematic skill, suitable for arboreal critters like cats or squirrels. It might be realistic for creatures with limited ability to hover.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

-weathersense

Another critical skill for wild animals, although many animals seem to have an instinctive sense for when seriously bad weather is coming. That could be treated as a Perk.

[QUOTE=Donny Brook;2375241]
-performance
[/quote}

This could be treated as a generic "trick performing" skill for animals trained as entertainers. One trick might be a perk, but the ability to do a whole bunch of different tricks could be treated as Performance.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

-stealth

Not so much for horse, but critical for predators and some prey animals.

Ditto for Camouflage, at least for animals which use active measures to hide their visual profile or scent.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

-teamster

For most animals, Pulling skill seems more appropriate, since Teamster covers handling multiple animals pulling a vehicle as well as controlling the vehicle itself.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

On a different note, I have found it very difficult to use the Ally rules for any sort of realistic animal because they start with serious character point deficiencies to reach even 25% of many PCs starting value, and the paced growth in point value soon makes them exceed any reasonable degree of capability.

The simple solution is to read "25% of PC character points" as "25% or less" or just handwave it and count a very weak, "All the Time" Ally as Perk or just "Equipment."

Alternately, you can assign fraction point costs to Allies built on less than 25% of PC point costs, e.g., 0.8 for up to 20%, 0.6 for up to 15%, 0.4 for up to 10%, or 0.2 for 5% or less.

For example, if a 250 point character want to have a -100 point trained cat as an Ally, base point cost would be 0.2 before factoring in Frequency of Appearance. If it appears "All the Time" point cost can be rounded up to 1.

Or, if you want to have horde of 100 -350 point rats as an Ally Group, base cost would be 0.2 x 12 = 2.4 multiplied by Frequency of Appearance.

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

As an IQ/Hard skill primarily focused on training and caring for other animals, I'm not sure it's particularly useful for animal characters. Training associated with humans herding animals is perhaps better modeled by Professional Skills (e.g., Herding), which can be optionally specialized by species (e.g., Shepherding).

Bear in mind I said 'a case could be made'. But yes, I agree the Professional Skill route will produce a more competent animal for the particular niche.

This is probably at a default unless the animal has received training or has unusual experience. For example, a dog is going to be able to instinctively understand canine body language in the same way that humans understand basic human expressions and postures.

I would suggest that domestic animals with sufficient experience or training will demonstrate an ability to read human behavior.

Appropriate for trained animals, but possibly just a Trick (i.e., a perk) or part of the Acrobatics skill. For example, a dog who's just able to bounce up and down on its hind legs might only have a Perk.

I'd say Dressage is basically Dancing.

Since Group Performance is an IQ/A skill that covers getting a group of performers coordinated, it's unlikely that animals will have this skill. Coordinating instinctive behaviors for pack or herd animals is more likely an application of Leadership.

I'm thinking of the Lipizaner (sp?) stallions.

This could be treated as a generic "trick performing" skill for animals trained as entertainers. One trick might be a perk, but the ability to do a whole bunch of different tricks could be treated as Performance.

I would argue that for many intelligent mammals trained to perform portray a clear understanding of when they are 'on stage' and know they are supposed to 'ham it up'.

Not so much for horse, but critical for predators and some prey animals.

Lots of prey animals seems to know they should sneak or minimize their perceptibility. I think a horse used in hunting could be trained to sneak too.

For most animals, Pulling skill seems more appropriate, since Teamster covers handling multiple animals pulling a vehicle as well as controlling the vehicle itself.

My premise for this is that the most experienced horse or dog in a team is valued for its influence on the team's performance.

[jacobmuller]

If someone put all these mount ideas together, Zombie style, I'd buy the pdf.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

I would suggest that domestic animals with sufficient experience or training will demonstrate an ability to read human behavior.

Kromm and I discussed this fairly recently. He thought that there were definitely two specialties, and that while a typical dog would have Body Language (Canine), a dog raised exclusively by humans might have Body Language (Human) [or (Simian)?] and have trouble reading canid body language.

[Polkageist]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

The simple solution is to read "25% of PC character points" as "25% or less" or just handwave it and count a very weak, "All the Time" Ally as Perk or just "Equipment."

Alternately, you can assign fraction point costs to Allies built on less than 25% of PC point costs, e.g., 0.8 for up to 20%, 0.6 for up to 15%, 0.4 for up to 10%, or 0.2 for 5% or less.

For example, if a 250 point character want to have a -100 point trained cat as an Ally, base point cost would be 0.2 before factoring in Frequency of Appearance. If it appears "All the Time" point cost can be rounded up to 1.

Or, if you want to have horde of 100 -350 point rats as an Ally Group, base cost would be 0.2 x 12 = 2.4 multiplied by Frequency of Appearance.

Capping the Ally value to 25% for an animal ally is probably a good way to keep it from being a bonkers powerful creature. Wizard familiars aren't way out of bounds and those can eat up a lot of points without the creature being broken.

I would point out that a horse made up as an Ally is not like other horses. This is a Special Horse. Smarter than most, a problem solver, loyal and brave... this is a horse you care for.
While padding on skills and stats seems like you'll end up with an unrealistic animal after a while, I would suggest dumping points into the meta-game advantages to give that horse an uncanny edge.
Unfazeable, various levels of Luck, Charmisa ("Hey, that's a really nice horse!"), Combat reflexes, Common/Danger (horse) sense, levels in Fearlessness or Fit, Hard to Kill or Subdue... even oddball things like Voice (The horse just sounds COOL, get it to whinney on command and it's just heart-stopping how clear and pure the horse cry is)

Usually a character doesn't have the budget to pile on all those mundane but powerful advantages but an Ally horse doesn't need to worry about that so much and can have just a ridiculous ability to survive things because... well, that's a Special Horse.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by Polkageist

Capping the Ally value to 25% for an animal ally is probably a good way to keep it from being a bonkers powerful creature. Wizard familiars aren't way out of bounds and those can eat up a lot of points without the creature being broken.

In an old Deadlands game, one of my players wanted a wonder horse akin to Silver or Tornado so we built him on 100% (250 pts by campaign's end). Spot the Wonder Horse was wondrous indeed. Sometimes we joked that he was the PC and Isaiah was his sidekick. It worked fine, in large part because there were many instances where Spot couldn't go but I charged points for "always there".