is having or lacking a soul a 0pt feature?

Plane · 11-29-2020, 02:19 PM

M154 (soul jar) requires having a soul, which made me wonder if there are any creatures it would not work on, or mechanically what a soul is actually supposed to be. It's not consciousness since we know the soul shifts to the jar but the consciousness doesn't shift until the body holding the consciousness dies...

the phrase "death of your body does not kill you" I guess implies that otherwise your consciousness would just evaporate along with your body?

Substantially I'm wondering if the soul might be something like an insubstantial body (with HP?) that the consciousness might move to. Like how "Spirit Form" or "Projection" work. Or maybe it's just like the base form of Possession (not "Spiritual" limitation meant to be paired w/ Insubstantiality) where the new body you inhabit is your only body? In that case "shock" and "knockdown" and so on would then apply to damage done to your jar? Or maybe you effectively have High Pain Threshold and IT : Unstoppable to ignore wounds?

I know destroying the soul jar (a physical object) causes death, but if it was some ridiculous DR1000 jar you couldn't easily wreck then I'd be curious about other approaches, like say an "Insubstantial Only" attack that could just blast through walls without harming them to harm insubstantial things on the other side of walls.

That actually makes me wonder: even though insubstantial-only can't deplete the HP of substantial objects (functions like 'no wounding' to them) do those objects still provide "cover DR" to insubstantial stuff behind them? So you'd still need to get "armor divisor" or "ignores DR" to blast at ghosts hiding inside caskets and stuff?

In thinking about who you might not be able to use Soul Jar on, I thought perhaps Zombie since M154 says "does not have the “soul,” mental traits, IQ-based skills, or memories of the living person" but that could just mean it doesn't have the SAME soul, like maybe the spell creates a NEW soul?

Soul Jar makes a distinction between consciousness and soul, and B32 says "Mental advantages originate from your mind, or perhaps even your soul" (B120 also "Mental disadvantages originate from your mind or soul") so it might not be clear which traits are consciousness-based and which are soul-based...

T162 refers to the idea that it can be partitioned too, a "soul-fragment" is "part of a living target’s soul," .. I guess I'm not sure if souls are just a feature of being a sentient (IQ1+) or a Sapient (IQ6+) or lacking some sort of other feature or disadvantage...

11-29-2020, 02:19 PM	#1
Plane Join Date: Aug 2018	is having or lacking a soul a 0pt feature? M154 (soul jar) requires having a soul, which made me wonder if there are any creatures it would not work on, or mechanically what a soul is actually supposed to be. It's not consciousness since we know the soul shifts to the jar but the consciousness doesn't shift until the body holding the consciousness dies... the phrase "death of your body does not kill you" I guess implies that otherwise your consciousness would just evaporate along with your body? Substantially I'm wondering if the soul might be something like an insubstantial body (with HP?) that the consciousness might move to. Like how "Spirit Form" or "Projection" work. Or maybe it's just like the base form of Possession (not "Spiritual" limitation meant to be paired w/ Insubstantiality) where the new body you inhabit is your only body? In that case "shock" and "knockdown" and so on would then apply to damage done to your jar? Or maybe you effectively have High Pain Threshold and IT : Unstoppable to ignore wounds? I know destroying the soul jar (a physical object) causes death, but if it was some ridiculous DR1000 jar you couldn't easily wreck then I'd be curious about other approaches, like say an "Insubstantial Only" attack that could just blast through walls without harming them to harm insubstantial things on the other side of walls. That actually makes me wonder: even though insubstantial-only can't deplete the HP of substantial objects (functions like 'no wounding' to them) do those objects still provide "cover DR" to insubstantial stuff behind them? So you'd still need to get "armor divisor" or "ignores DR" to blast at ghosts hiding inside caskets and stuff? In thinking about who you might not be able to use Soul Jar on, I thought perhaps Zombie since M154 says "does not have the “soul,” mental traits, IQ-based skills, or memories of the living person" but that could just mean it doesn't have the SAME soul, like maybe the spell creates a NEW soul? Soul Jar makes a distinction between consciousness and soul, and B32 says "Mental advantages originate from your mind, or perhaps even your soul" (B120 also "Mental disadvantages originate from your mind or soul") so it might not be clear which traits are consciousness-based and which are soul-based... T162 refers to the idea that it can be partitioned too, a "soul-fragment" is "part of a living target’s soul," .. I guess I'm not sure if souls are just a feature of being a sentient (IQ1+) or a Sapient (IQ6+) or lacking some sort of other feature or disadvantage...