01-22-2014, 09:35 AM | #91 | |
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Yorkshire, UK
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Re: How do you handle compulsory point expenditures
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The benefits of Wealth require point expenditure (or the advantage could be gifted by the GM like any other Advantage - Rank granted by a Patron, Unaging granted by a God, etc. Having a big pile of cash does not 'require' you to spend points on the Wealth Advantage - with 2 possible exceptions: Dead Broke, and where you have a Job of a higher Wealth Level. If you don't spend points to increase your relative Wealth level, then those characters who are Dead Broke will 'lose' their money (the cost of a -25 points Disadvantage is being hosed by fate/GM); and those with a Job from a higher Wealth level risk losing their Job (the rules don't actually say that, but its a logical resolution to the situation). |
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01-22-2014, 10:02 AM | #92 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: How do you handle compulsory point expenditures
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Wealth's only game effect is in Char gen in how much money you start with (plus a fee bonus possibly to status), which is why applying its effect further directly into the game is IMO not appropriate No where in the description does it say in dead broke that you are incapable of retaining money. Basically: You start with nothing but here's 25cp ≠ you will never have anything but here's 25cp or You start with $200 but here's 15cp) ≠ you will never be able to have more than $200 worth of anything but here's 15cp. |
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01-22-2014, 10:17 AM | #93 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: How do you handle compulsory point expenditures
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01-22-2014, 10:22 AM | #94 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: How do you handle compulsory point expenditures
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In practice, I solve the problem by just forbidding wealth advantages/disadvantages in any game that's likely to have large changes in personal net worth due to adventuring, and in games that aren't like that you either pay points or you lose the money. |
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01-22-2014, 10:30 AM | #95 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: How do you handle compulsory point expenditures
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01-22-2014, 10:41 AM | #96 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: How do you handle compulsory point expenditures
B291. Wealth is ordinarily a trait gained during play (whether or not cash by itself == wealth, it's certainly possible to turn a pile of cash into wealth with all the trappings), and thus shouldn't cost points, but is given as a specific example of something to spend points on. I'm guessing that page is a collision of two distinctly different gaming philosophies.
Last edited by Anthony; 01-22-2014 at 10:51 AM. |
01-22-2014, 11:04 AM | #97 |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Re: How do you handle compulsory point expenditures
I did a quick sweep through Characters for instances of the term 'buy off'. It netted me several apparently relevant cases of a buy off being triggered and compulsory. I did not do a search for something like 'buying up' so this is possibly only partial data.
There are 8 cases where the requirement is stated, but no mechanism provided for carrying it out. There are 5 cases where the procedure to follow is specified. These are the ones in which specific procedures are specified. Of possible note, none of these cases include the idea of running a point deficit. I am only guessing to hope sir_pudding might find the emphasized portions shed some light on an analysis of his. "If you acquire a “miracle cure,” upload yourself into a new body, or otherwise extend your life past your termination date during the course of the campaign, you must buy off this disadvantage. If you cannot afford to do so, the GM is free to make up the difference with new disadvantages related to your illness or its cure (e.g., Chronic Pain, ..." b158 "If your Dependent is killed, or so seriously injured that the GM decides he is effectively out of the campaign, you must make up the bonus points you got for him. You have three options: buy off the amount by spending earned character points, take a new disadvantage (e.g., Chronic Depression, p. 126), or get a new Dependent." b131 "You must buy off a disadvantageous Destiny as soon as it is fulfilled. This is automatic if the outcome strips you of Allies, Status, Wealth, etc. worth the same number of points. If you lack the points to buy off your Destiny, you gain Unluckiness (p. 160), regardless of the point value of the Destiny. It is up to the GM whether you can buy off the Unluckiness! Alternatively, the GM might assign you a new bad Destiny, Divine Curse (below), or other supernatural disadvantage.B132 "If you start with a weak Enemy, or play cleverly, you might manage to eliminate your foe or permanently change his attitude toward you. But as the saying goes, “There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.” If you get rid of an Enemy, you have three choices: 1. Pay enough character points to buy off the original bonus you got for that Enemy. 2. Take a disadvantage to make up for the point bonus. For instance, you might have been kicked in the head during the final battle, leaving you partially deaf. Or a giant spider might have attacked you, leaving you with arachnophobia. The new disadvantage should have the same point cost as your former Enemy (or less, if you want to buy off part of the disadvantage). If you cannot think of a good substitute disadvantage, the GM will be more than happy to supply one!3. Take a new Enemy of equal value. You might have destroyed the fiendish Dr. Scorpion – but his brother is continuing his evil work." b135 "Should you ever reach your goal, you must either substitute a new goal or buy off your Obsession." b146 These are the cases where no procedure is supplied {my remarks are italicized}: You must buy off this trait when you reach “legal age” (usually 18) for your time and place. B155 {The birthday happens during an off-stage/down-time period in the campaign. When play begins, the character has no unspent CP. What happens?} "Of course, your reputation extends only within a certain area. If you travel far enough away, the GM may require you to “buy off” the disadvantage points you received for a bad reputation." B28 Social Stigma: You cannot get rid of this with points alone. You must either change your position in society or change your society. The GM will tell you when you have succeeded – at that time, you must pay enough points to buy off the original disadvantage. B292 {I put these two together because they have practical similarities and could somehow make an enlightening comparison.} If you manage to exorcise the evil spirits, you are cured and must buy off this disadvantage. B148 (Phantom Voices) {Scenario: Diagrogos, Priest of Evil is captured by minions of Yenwe, goddess of nice. They decide to exorcise him of his evil spirits. What happens in: Case 1: They succeed, but he has no CP available to spend, but would indeed love to be free of the voices. Case 1B: They succeed, but he has no available CP to spend, and doesn't want to get rid of it anyway. Case C: They succeed, he does have sufficient unspent CP, but doesn't want to get rid of it.} "When your [secret] disadvantage finally becomes obvious in the course of play (GM’s decision), you must buy off the extra -5 points as soon as possible." B120 {This is an interesting one because it implies that in the event a character cannot buy off the -5 points immediately, he carries a payment obligation to be realized out of earned character points. In effect, a negative balance of unspent points.} "For details, see Drug Withdrawal (p. 440). Should you successfully withdraw from an Addiction, you must immediately buy off this disadvantage." b122 {This contrasts with secret disadvantage, in saying immediately instead of as soon as possible. So what happens if the character goes through the process of withdrawal and doesn't have the points at the time it's complete?} {Last two:} "If you can make 14 successful rolls in succession, you must buy off your Addiction." b122 "Many Vows end after a specified period of time. You must buy off such a Vow when it ends." B161 Last edited by Figleaf23; 01-22-2014 at 11:18 AM. |
01-22-2014, 11:12 AM | #98 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: How do you handle compulsory point expenditures
Optional Purchase of Wealth: When your PC receives a windfall (treasure, lottery winnings, etc.), enough to boost her Wealth, you have the option to declare that she's investing some or all of her money in the social structures necessary to support higher Wealth. That means things like buying club memberships, opening a secured trading account, paying off debts, starting tabs by making large purchases from prestigious merchants, investing most of the money for the long term, and having her now-impressed banker, newly hired attorney, et al. vouch for her. Then you can spend some earned points on Wealth, which will give her the connections for better jobs at a future date, and possibly some free Wealth-derived Status. Such a course is never required, and you always have the alternative of saying that your PC keeps the cash for spending and uses it to buy gear – but that won't help her future jobs, Status, etc.
Compulsory Purchase of Wealth: When your PC earns a lot of money by working at a job, the choice is made for her. She has come into good fortune the slow, sure way that most societies recognize as respectable. She has been making connections and investments for months or years. As the player, you're required to spend earned points on Wealth . . . unless you can successfully petition the GM to agree that your PC is suddenly out of a job and discredited with nothing but a bunch of money to show for it. Spontaneous Addition of Wealth: When your PC is rewarded – when the GM decrees something like, "And your reward from the Prince is riches. Everybody now has Very Wealthy!" – she get Wealth and her point value goes up. The Wealth takes the form of the contacts for better jobs, free Status, etc. There may be no extra cash . . . what she gains, in effect, is credit rating. Thus, this is not a windfall or earnings, but a hybrid case where the respect and connections of the latter are bestowed in the manner of the former, without liquid assets necessarily changing hands. Refusing the free advantage is an option, but this might mean gaining nothing; the kinds of authorities who can award social privilege pay little or nothing to do so, and often lack the personal fortune to award a cash equivalent.
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Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com> GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News] |
01-22-2014, 11:17 AM | #99 | |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Re: How do you handle compulsory point expenditures
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Last edited by Figleaf23; 01-22-2014 at 12:28 PM. |
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01-22-2014, 11:35 AM | #100 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: How do you handle compulsory point expenditures
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From the other side, you can buy cash equal to 10% of average starting wealth for 1 point, or gain Signature Gear equal to 50% of average starting wealth for 1 point. So both cash and possessions are distinguished in the rules from Wealth, which has a different point cost scheme. Therefore, what you are spending the points on cannot be the money as such (especially since you could buy Wealth, gain starting wealth, and then spend the whole campaign depleting starting wealth, never make more, and never have that much cash again). There seem to be at least three things that Wealth gets you. One is, in many societies, a bonus to Status. The other is access to higher-class jobs with a superior pay rate. The third is the ability to earn larger amounts of Independent Income from your investments (but, conversely, the need to pay larger amounts on your debts). None of these follows from simply having more cash, neither in GURPS rules nor in the real world. Bill Stoddard |
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