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Old 11-29-2015, 09:47 PM   #1
thredge
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Playing Cards from Your Hand?

New player, and I'm not quite sure about a few general play things yet. These questions deal with when you are allowed to play cards from your hand.
  • Turn Phases - on your turn are you allowed to start by playing cards from your hand (item / class / race / go up a level / sell cards for levels) before you kick in the door, or is kicking in the door always intended to be the first action before you do anything else on your turn? The instructions under Turn Phases say, when your cards are arranged the way you want, you go to kick in the door, but I wasn't sure if that meant you could play cards or just change items already in play.
In most cases it seems most of that stuff gets played out at the end of the previous turn, but a few other card play questions we had caused this question to come up.
  • Playing Cards Before Game Start – before the first turn in the game, I see everyone is allowed to play class and race cards, as well as any item cards. Are you also allowed to play any go up a level cards or Curses? (so you would start the game above level 1?)

    In our very first game, I drew 2 go up a level cards in the initial draw, and we weren't able to determine from the instructions if those could be played before the first turn, or if they could be played at the start of my turn before kicking in a door.
    .
  • Resolving Number of Cards in Hand Before your Turn? - are you required to immediately resolve having too many cards in your hand if you get Charity or help another player in Combat and get treasures from it, or do you wait until Charity at the end of your next turn? Waiting until the end of the turn allows all of those extra cards to be available for you whole turn, or possibly helping others on their turn.
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Old 11-30-2015, 08:46 AM   #2
MunchkinMan
 
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Default Re: Playing Cards from Your Hand?

I point out relevant rules sections in my responses, for your reference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thredge View Post
Turn Phases - on your turn are you allowed to start by playing cards from your hand (item / class / race / go up a level / sell cards for levels) before you kick in the door, or is kicking in the door always intended to be the first action before you do anything else on your turn? The instructions under Turn Phases say, when your cards are arranged the way you want, you go to kick in the door, but I wasn't sure if that meant you could play cards or just change items already in play.
You're allowed to play cards before you kick open the door. This is covered in the rules in the very first paragraph of the Turn Phases section, which says:


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rules
At the start of your turn, you may play cards, switch items from “in use” to “carried” or vice versa, trade items with other players, and sell items for levels. When your cards are arranged the way you want, go to phase 1.

Quote:
Playing Cards Before Game Start – before the first turn in the game, I see everyone is allowed to play class and race cards, as well as any item cards. Are you also allowed to play any go up a level cards or Curses? (so you would start the game above level 1?)
Here's what the rules say, specifically:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rules
Look at your initial eight cards. If you have any Race or Class cards, you may (if you like) play one of each type by placing it in front of you. If you have any usable Items (p. 5), you may play them by placing them in front of you. If you have any doubt about whether you should play a card, you could read below, or you could just charge ahead and do it.
I think we decided that the rules say what we want people to be able to do, but we leave room for a group to decide on their own (i.e., develop house rules) if they want to do anything slightly differently (that would be the section I emphasized). So, by a very strict interpretation, Classes, Races, and Items are the only cards you can play. We feel that the game hasn't started yet, so playing Curses at this point is a bit aggressive. GUAL cards are a bit of a different animal. So, you'll have to decide, as a group, what you think is fair.

Quote:
Resolving Number of Cards in Hand Before your Turn? - are you required to immediately resolve having too many cards in your hand if you get Charity or help another player in Combat and get treasures from it, or do you wait until Charity at the end of your next turn? Waiting until the end of the turn allows all of those extra cards to be available for you whole turn, or possibly helping others on their turn.
You only worry about your hand size at the end of your turn. In the rules, both the description of Charity and Your Hand (under Card Management) cover this. This means while it's not your turn, and while it's your turn but you haven't gotten to the point where you're about to end your turn, you could have as many cards in your hand as you can or want.
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Old 11-30-2015, 05:40 PM   #3
thredge
 
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Default Re: Playing Cards from Your Hand?

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm referencing September 2015 game printing in my comments, which I would think would be kind of current :P And is also the same as the v1.7 Deluxe PDF rules online.

And the rules in those printings for Turn Phases don't read like your quote.

Mine specifically read:
Quote:
September 2015 The Rules
TURN PHASES
Your turn begins as soon as the previous player's turn ends. When your cards are arranged the way you want, go to phase 1.
It instead seems to have a table above that section, that tries to make clear when actions may be taken, but leaves some room for interpretation for the play at the start of a turn.

I agree, your version is much clearer and concise, and would have been very helpful to new players. I vote that language gets added back to the next printing. :)

For playing cards before game start, with the ability to start your turn with playing cards anyway, its nice to have that start phase just be mainly a character setup phase.

Number of Cards in Hand - we played our first games only discarding at the charity part of turns, so sounds like we did this as intended, and I like it. I think the question came up because of the mechanic about resolving large items immediately, and having to give them to the lowest level character as well. I need to look at that a little more to see if I can better understand it.

Thanks again.
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: Playing Cards from Your Hand?

Hmmm. I thought I had the most current PDF on my computer. . . I'll have to check (appears not, must be thinking of my other computer). However, all the rules are available here.

I'll look over the current rules and see if there aren't the necessary clarifications elsewhere.
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Old 12-01-2015, 09:08 AM   #5
Andrew Hackard
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Default Re: Playing Cards from Your Hand?

The rulesheets on the website are, sadly, sometimes out of date. We're printing so much that this process occasionally slips through the cracks. I'm asking our team to compare the web to the most recent printings of all games and send updated PDFs where necessary. This has to take priority behind getting games to print, however, so it could be January before we're able to bring this page fully up to date.
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:07 PM   #6
thredge
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: Playing Cards from Your Hand?

Andrew, I would have thought my September 2015 set would have been fairly current too, so I wasn't surprised the PDF was the same, but maybe you have a newer printing.

MunchkinMan, that appears to be the same rules link where I found the PDF I referenced, am I missing something you were trying to show me that was different? Also, in the rules I referenced, I'm sure it could be argued the "When You May Take Actions" table above the "Turn Phases" tries to relay this when it says, you can play items on your turn, but the language you quoted did a great job of making sure there is no confusion.

I understand about the printings being more important. You guys have a really cool thing here with the direct feedback and answering questions for newbs and advanced players, so keep up the good work.

Thanks again for all the help for the newbs. :)
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Old 12-02-2015, 08:35 AM   #7
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Default Re: Playing Cards from Your Hand?

Whenever I talk about the availability of the rules, I make an effort to refer back to the web page with all the rules, that's all.

My other point was that my work laptop, not my personal laptop, seems to have an outdated digital copy of the rules.
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