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Old 06-18-2019, 04:00 AM   #41
evileeyore
 
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Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Exactly. Just as you need something that allows a Block as part of the purported shield gadget if you're going to Block with it.
And what, besides description, would that be?


Noting that canonically (Supers pg 780), you are wrong. The only thing you need to make a Shield Gadget is to buy it's DB (represented through ED, though this is never spelled out) and I simply disagree with what is needed to buy that DB (I say it should just be ED(B) at 5/lvl, not ED at 30/lvl).
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:41 AM   #42
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Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
And what, besides description, would that be?
Something mechanical. (As noted by someone earlier, Supers p.74 seems to address it.) Description can't add game mechanics. You can't build an IA with basic ROF and then rapid fire with it just because you describe it as a machine gun.



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Noting that canonically (Supers pg 780), you are wrong.
That seems unlikely since Supers has only 152 pages.

Last edited by Donny Brook; 06-18-2019 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:50 AM   #43
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Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
That seems unlikely since Supers has only 152 pages.
It's a typo, an extra '0' tacked onto the reference to page 78. There's a big box at the bottom of the page titled "Shields".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supers p78
Shields can also be bought as gadgets, similar to armor, but with some special rules. Shields are either breakable or unbreakable. An unbreakable shield’s character point cost is based on the DB it provides, with gadget limitations for Can Be Stolen (Quick Contest of ST, -30%) and possibly Unique (-25%).

{more paragraphs on breakable shields}

Other gadgets can also provide cover to their users, if they are large enough. Treat such gadgets as improvised shields. Buy a DB for the gadget, based on its size, with the same gadget limitations as for its primary functions.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:08 AM   #44
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Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
It's a typo, an extra '0' tacked onto the reference to page 78. There's a big box at the bottom of the page titled "Shields".
Oh, thanks for the reference.

I certainly don't see anything in that box that allows mere description to turn and Enhanced Defense advantage into a functioning shield. By inference I would conclude it builds on the box on p.74.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:51 PM   #45
evileeyore
 
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Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

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Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Something mechanical. (As noted by someone earlier, Supers p.74 seems to address it.)
Which I already mentioned earlier and they pointed out when they mentioned it: Treat it as Signature Gear.

Which is probably what I'd do next time someone wants an 'indestructible' shield. 1 point Signature Gear, done (and the Patron or whatever indicating where they are getting it from).

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Description can't add game mechanics.
Sure it can.

The canonical shield from Supers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supers pg 47
Superalloy Medium Shield: Defense Bonus 2 (Breakability, DR 10, DB 2, -30%; Can Be Stolen, Quick Contest of ST, -30%) [24] + Perk: Striking Surface [1]. Features: DB 3, DR 10, 80 HP, 10 lbs.; cover DR 30.
What 'mechanics' are making it a shield? Buying ED(All) level 2? The Striking Surface which makes it a weapon? The Gadget Limitations?
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:08 PM   #46
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Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
And what, besides description, would that be?

Noting that canonically (Supers pg 780), you are wrong. The only thing you need to make a Shield Gadget is to buy it's DB (represented through ED, though this is never spelled out) and I simply disagree with what is needed to buy that DB (I say it should just be ED(B) at 5/lvl, not ED at 30/lvl).
The only functional difference between Enhanced Defenses and Defense Bonus that I can think of is the optional rule where if the roll is so close that the DB is what makes a success, that the shield takes the damage (subtracting DR as usual) whereas a gadget that gives Enhanced Defenses wouldn't do that.

Maybe it's considered a 0-point feature to do that? Has its ups and downs.

If you only bought Enhanced Block, it would only help with blocks and not make your dodges/parries any better.

I think in either case, if you buy the baseline item serving as your gadget as a shield then you should get the baseline Defense Bonus it offers, and any you buy as a Power w/ Gadget Limitations should be in addition to that, allowing you to exceed the normal limitations of shields.

For someone who wants to beef up the DR of their shields, rather than buying it raw, wouldn't it be simpler to design that as "Affliction: Advantage, Damage Resistance" ?
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:29 PM   #47
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Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
The only functional difference between Enhanced Defenses and Defense Bonus that I can think of is...
That you can't actually buy DB.

Also your thing.

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If you only bought Enhanced Block, it would only help with blocks and not make your dodges/parries any better.
That's one way to look at it.

The other way is "90 points is too much for what a large shield gives if the Character just spends $90 on it". And, at the time I hadn't yet latched on to my love of saying "1 point Signature Gear, done".


Quote:
For someone who wants to beef up the DR of their shields, rather than buying it raw, wouldn't it be simpler to design that as "Affliction: Advantage, Damage Resistance" ?
Simpler than "Gadget, Breakable 0% X DR"? I strongly disagree.
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:15 AM   #48
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Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

So, in the end, what is it?
1 point signature gear and whatever else the shield does as powers with gadget limitation?
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Old 06-19-2019, 08:36 AM   #49
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Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

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Originally Posted by Aldric View Post
So, in the end, what is it?
1 point signature gear and whatever else the shield does as powers with gadget limitation?
Yep.

Assuming you feel obliged to account for the mundane properties of the shield in the CP meta-currency. Sig Gear or an Accessory Perk -- Sig Gear is more like an actual item (Captain America's shield) whereas Accessory Perk has a bit more of an "extra feature" flavor (say a cyborg hand with a screwdriver fingertip). But it's pretty much the same either way -- or even without the 1 CP surcharge. There's no base cost or defined form for the exact kind of item a Gadget is. They're free, as far as CP goes. Some people get nervous if the item can have any sort of mechanical effect at all, though. You can charge cash or CP or both for equipment.

Mostly, the form of a Gadget is just fluff text, up to the concept. It doesn't matter whether Green Lantern's ring is actually a ring, or a bracelet, or a pair of fuzzy dice hanging around his neck. There aren't distinct rules for building each of those, nor does it change the way the abilities work. If that concept just so happens *innocent munchkin whistling* to call for the Gadget being particularly valuable or useful in other ways, you might want to charge for the extra features that aren't Gadget-granted abilities of the character.
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