Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-14-2019, 10:22 PM   #11
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

There is differences between needing to guard just 1 item to protect your abilities, and to guard several items. I think we'd need a rule (like with linked Innate Attacks where you make 1 roll to hit instead of 2 if it's same bonuses) to consider the 2 gadget limitations to refer to a single item.
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2019, 06:47 AM   #12
evileeyore
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
I think we'd need a rule (like with linked Innate Attacks where you make 1 roll to hit instead of 2 if it's same bonuses) to consider the 2 gadget limitations to refer to a single item.
No need.

Just build the Gadget as so:

Cap's 'Invulnerable' Shield [23]
DB 3, DR 50, 100 HP, 10 lbs.; cover DR 100. Can be thrown and bounced off of hard surfaces (-1 per bounce) for 3d crushing damage, -5 to Shield Throwing will also return to user.

Statistics: Enhanced Defenses (Block) 3 (ED(B) 3 [15]; Breakable, Durability DR 50, 100 HP, -0%; Repairable, -0%; SM -3, -15%; Can Be Stolen, Quick Contest of ST, -30%) [9]; Innate Attack, Crushing 3d (IAC 3d [15]; Overhead (Bounce), +30%; Breakable, Durability DR 50, 100 HP, -0%; Repairable, -0%; SM -3, -15%; Can Be Stolen, Quick Contest of ST, -30%) [13]; Perk: Striking Surface [1].


Another way I like to write up something like this:

Cap's 'Invulnerable' Shield [20]
DB 3, DR 50, 100 HP, 10 lbs.; cover DR 100. Can be thrown and bounced off of hard surfaces (-1 per bounce) for 3d crushing damage, -5 to Shield Throwing will also return to user.

Statistics: Enhanced Defenses (Block) 3 [15]; Innate Attack, Crushing 3d (Overhead (Bounce), +30%) [20]; Perk: Striking Surface [1]. Breakable, Durability DR 50, 100 HP, -0%; Repairable, -0%; SM -3, -15%; Can Be Stolen, Quick Contest of ST, -30%. Cost: 20.


The second way isn't RAW, it mitigates some of the 'round up' that can increase a final cost (and in this case reduces the Perk cost), but clearly implies that the two Powers and the Perk are one item.
__________________
Feel free to steal, borrow, fold, spindle, mutilate any rule, advantage, etc I come up with it.

Gurps Combat Club on RPoL. Come check it out, play in a tourney or two!
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2019, 10:52 AM   #13
Donny Brook
 
Donny Brook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

Doesn't a shield add it's DB to all your defenses?
Donny Brook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2019, 01:19 PM   #14
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
Doesn't a shield add it's DB to all your defenses?
Yes it does. That's why Supers reccommneds that you create a Meta-Trait that does the same. Enhanced Block+Enhanced Parry+Enhanced Dodge. It's expensive but that's what it all adds up to.

Note that you can have an absolutely indestructible shield a la Captain America. Just don't take the applicable Gadget Limitation.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2019, 04:24 PM   #15
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
No need.
Enhanced Defenses (Block) 3 (ED(B) 3 [15]; Breakable, Durability DR 50, 100 HP, -0%; Repairable, -0%; SM -3, -15%; Can Be Stolen, Quick Contest of ST, -30%) [9];
Innate Attack, Crushing 3d (IAC 3d [15]; Overhead (Bounce), +30%; Breakable, Durability DR 50, 100 HP, -0%; Repairable, -0%; SM -3, -15%; Can Be Stolen, Quick Contest of ST, -30%) [13];
Perk: Striking Surface [1].
So long as they know that unlike a shield, the +3 is only for blocks and not dodges/parries.

We can probably ignore Striking Surface for the moment, since it doesn't have modifiers applied to it.

What I'm wondering is if we have precedent to consider it of equal value to have 1 gadget imparting 2 advantages, vs 2 gadgets imparting 2 advantages.

S83 has an almost-there example of the Size Change Helmet where they have the same modifiers (well aside from a typo omitting the 4 in "Takes Extra Time 4" in 2nd case) as Alternative Abilities.

S82's "Bioenergy Crystal" is what I think we're looking for though. ST+10 and HT+10 are 2 separate leveled advantages, and that statting could actually represent having 2 crystals (one to boost ST and one to boost HT) so having them combined to be the very same crystal appears to be considered a 0-point feature here.

How would you deal wih S45's Dreadnought though? The first 3 aspects (Strength Amplification, Armored Shell, Electrified Surface) share a -45% summed limitation of:

Breakable, DR 25, Complex Mechanism, SM 0, -35%;
Can Be Stolen, Forcible removal, -10%;
So I guess you might treat that as all one gadget (forcibly remove one you forcibly remove all)

But in the other cases where this differs (worth fewer points due to lower SM) you would have to treat them as separate gadgets.

Jet Pack and Life Support are both SM-3 so you COULD treat them as the same gadget, but it seems like an odd connection (unlike STamplify/Armor/ElecSurf which just sounds like the main body of the armor) so it'd probably make more sense not to merge them.

Same thing with Plug-Ins vs Sensor Suite, those sound like they would be separate components so even though both are SM-4 and you could legally treat them as 1 gadget, I'd opt not to.
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2019, 05:42 PM   #16
evileeyore
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
So long as they know that unlike a shield, the +3 is only for blocks and not dodges/parries.
In my game, it's DB not just ED(B). I never liked the write up for Man Plus' Shield, literally the only reason I even apply ED(B) is to have something to attach the Gadget limitations to and set a Durability off of. Otherwise I'd probably call it a 1 point piece of Signature Gear, stat it up with a monetary price tag, and call it a day.
__________________
Feel free to steal, borrow, fold, spindle, mutilate any rule, advantage, etc I come up with it.

Gurps Combat Club on RPoL. Come check it out, play in a tourney or two!
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2019, 08:07 PM   #17
Donny Brook
 
Donny Brook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

This may seem nitpicky, but unless I am mistaken, by RAW you must have a shield to be able to Block. Enhanced Defense (Block) only improves your Block roll, it doesn't grant one to which you would not otherwise be entitled.
Donny Brook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2019, 08:28 PM   #18
evileeyore
 
evileeyore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 100 hurricane swamp
Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
This may seem nitpicky, but unless I am mistaken, by RAW you must have a shield to be able to Block
That's what the Gadget is. A shield.

As per Supers pg 78. I simply disagree with it costing 30 points per DB when it's a piece of equipment that 'anyone' could pick up*.



* Yes, yes, an invulnerable shield isn't available to just anyone, however a shield is. Also, Cap's shield in my post above should be SM -2, which changes the modifiers slightly.
__________________
Feel free to steal, borrow, fold, spindle, mutilate any rule, advantage, etc I come up with it.

Gurps Combat Club on RPoL. Come check it out, play in a tourney or two!
evileeyore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2019, 12:20 AM   #19
a humble lich
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
That's what the Gadget is. A shield.

As per Supers pg 78. I simply disagree with it costing 30 points per DB when it's a piece of equipment that 'anyone' could pick up*.



* Yes, yes, an invulnerable shield isn't available to just anyone, however a shield is. Also, Cap's shield in my post above should be SM -2, which changes the modifiers slightly.
I see your logic, but I think there should be some point value to a invulnerable shield. I have no idea what the value should be. It seems you are somehow double dipping by saying it is a shield so you get its DB because that is what the equipment gives and also saying it is invulnerable because you don't take the Can Be Broken limitation. But rules wise I'm not sure if that's true.
a humble lich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2019, 12:41 AM   #20
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Question about... { Shields as Advantages }

Quote:
Originally Posted by a humble lich View Post
I see your logic, but I think there should be some point value to a invulnerable shield. I have no idea what the value should be. It seems you are somehow double dipping by saying it is a shield so you get its DB because that is what the equipment gives and also saying it is invulnerable because you don't take the Can Be Broken limitation. But rules wise I'm not sure if that's true.
Most campaigns dont bother with tracking shield damage anyhow.
In my game I would require it have a power though to be an indestructible gadget not just signature gear. Unless they were really common in the setting.
I would allow it to get a DB based on its size for free though.

As for the how many powers per gadget question, I allow however many the player wants as long as they make sense for the gadget. Its simply a matter of do you want all your eggs in one basket or not.
__________________
Looking for group in my area
My GURPS official contributions
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
Refplace is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.