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Old 04-17-2019, 11:40 PM   #11
tbone
 
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Default Re: Holier Warriors And Thiefbucklers

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Originally Posted by lachimba View Post
Nope

They are just after DR

Otherwise exploding bullets and so on would work very differently.
Not sure if we're talking about the same thing here. . . . Regarding follow-ups like flaming weapons, Exploits 56 says:

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Some attacks (e.g., poisoned arrows, flaming swords, and venomous monster fangs) carry a follow-up: a secondary effect (like paralysis or toxic damage) that occurs after the primary one. The primary effect is always damage of some kind – typically cutting, piercing, or impaling, occasionally crushing, and only rarely anything else.
It's not as clear as it could be, but if the primary effect is, say, impaling, I read the above as saying the impaling (with its multiplier) happens first, and after that, the secondary damage (like +2 for flame).

Which doesn't explicitly answer the question for body location, as opposed to weapon type – but they're essentially one and the same, i.e., "impaling + vitals" is one primary effect w/ a x3 multiplier (depending on the creature). The follow-up effect is then added after all that.

Do I have that all wrong? (It happens a lot. . . . )
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Old 04-17-2019, 11:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: Holier Warriors And Thiefbucklers

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Originally Posted by tbone View Post
It's not as clear as it could be, but if the primary effect is, say, impaling, I read the above as saying the impaling (with its multiplier) happens first, and after that, the secondary damage (like +2 for flame).
You apply the impaling damage (with its normal multiplier), and then you apply the followup (with its normal multiplier, if it has one; toxic or fatigue doesn't).
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Old 04-18-2019, 12:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: Holier Warriors And Thiefbucklers

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You apply the impaling damage (with its normal multiplier), and then you apply the followup (with its normal multiplier, if it has one; toxic or fatigue doesn't).
Right. . . . So, after DR, a flaming spear to the vitals does its normal spear dam x3, a flaming mace to the skull does its normal mace dam x4, etc., and after that, the magic flames add +2 dam.

The follow-up flame damage gets its own multiplier if there is one (e.g., "monster takes x2 damage from flame"), but the flame damage doesn't get the x3 for the spear vs vitals, x4 for mace vs head, etc.

That's my understanding, anyway.
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Old 04-18-2019, 02:28 AM   #14
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Default Re: Holier Warriors And Thiefbucklers

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The follow-up flame damage gets its own multiplier if there is one (e.g., "monster takes x2 damage from flame"), but the flame damage doesn't get the x3 for the spear vs vitals, x4 for mace vs head, etc.
The flame damage gets any wounding modifiers that apply to burning attacks. That includes x4 to the skull (also x3 to the vitals if the flame is tight beam burning, but I don't think it is in this case).
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Old 04-18-2019, 03:02 AM   #15
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Default Re: Holier Warriors And Thiefbucklers

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The flame damage gets any wounding modifiers that apply to burning attacks. That includes x4 to the skull (also x3 to the vitals if the flame is tight beam burning, but I don't think it is in this case).
Ah, right, because (double-checks books) x4 Burning mod for Skull. So, a flaming spear to the vitals gets its x3 for the weapon dam, but no special multiplier for the burning dam; while a flaming weapon to the skull gets x4 for the weapon and x4 for the burning.

So, going back to Dalin's question: My bad for not reading more closely. "No multipliers for follow-up flame dam" is the usual, general case, but by RAW, the flaming morningstar's follow-up burning dam does get a x4 multiplier, as a special skull effect.

Which, as Dalin suggests, would let the weapon deliver mind-blowing (heh) damage with every skull hit. Use with care!
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:11 AM   #16
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Default Re: Holier Warriors And Thiefbucklers

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Which, as Dalin suggests, would let the weapon deliver mind-blowing (heh) damage with every skull hit. Use with care!
[TROPE]
And then the Cleric never faced another foe with a skull ever again...
[/TROPE]



Heh. Yeah that did happen in one of my old campaigns, every time we significantly leveled up (this was D&D 3e, so like 4-5, 6-7, 8-10, etc) and got Feats or abilities or a magic weapon to deal with the "featured foe of these levels" we'd face it one more time, absolutely crush it (as we now had means of dealing with it) and then never face it again...
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:20 AM   #17
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[TROPE]
And then the Cleric never faced another foe with a skull ever again...
[/TROPE]
"Oh no! You're ambushed by the third gang of Headless Bandits today, again riding Homogenous Wargs, and leading another brainless Asbestos Golem. What do you do, Cleric Skullcrusher Flamemace?"

Bad GM!
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:38 AM   #18
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Bad GM!
In the case of my anecdote, it really wasn't the GM's fault... he was using premade adventures and in D&D (as most of us know) certain monsters do real well at certain levels, so addventure modules tend to feature them heavily at those levels... once we made it a running gag ("Oh hey, the Rogue and my Ranger can now both deal with Constructs, we'll never see them again!" or the cleric saying "Man, I'm tired of Undead, I'm taking Extreme Upgraded Super Turning Feats so we never see them again") the GM really did try to mix it up... but he was still using premade adventures so the problem was real and never really went away.

;)
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:01 AM   #19
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Default Re: Holier Warriors And Thiefbucklers

Heh. Well, at last night's game Zafir wielded his flaming morningstar (Matarab), with his DX boosted to 16 by Heroic Grace. This gave him an adjusted skill of 19, so he could make skull shots at 12. Sweet. The problem, of course, is that Zafir is a bit slow, had to lose his first turn to Concentrate, and the Scout, Martial Artist, and Holy Warrior (with two-handed sword) can drop foes rapidly. My first attack was after a move-and-attack so I didn't make a called shot. (Too bad, because I rolled three pips... sigh.) But then, at the end, there was a single foe remaining and I made the roll, it failed its defense, and the GM intoned the sweet words, "It's hard for any of you to imagine that it had ever had a head. . ."

Let's not discuss the fact that it was a Horde Pygmy who could have been killed with a papercut.
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:55 AM   #20
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Default Re: Holier Warriors And Thiefbucklers

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Let's not discuss the fact that it was a Horde Pygmy who could have been killed with a papercut.
In situations like that, I've been known to invoke GM fiat and have fragments of exploded skull whizz away from the direction of the blow (in this case, away from the cleric and friends) and harm the victim's allies. Something like 1d-4 cutting + 1 point burning follow-up seems appropriate here.
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