[DF] "Classic" Dungeon Fantasy racial vision types

[panton41]

While rereading Dungeon Fantasy 2 and 3 as well as playing way too much Dungeons and Dragons Online and Neverwinter Nights 2 I've come to the realization that the templates presented in DF3 are missing some of the munchkiny features they have in other games - namely things like Infravision, Dark Vision, etc.

Would allowing it, either starting or as a "Power Up" be terribly unbalancing or against the spirit of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ciaran_skye

Would allowing it, either starting or as a "Power Up" be terribly unbalancing or against the spirit of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy?

Most of the racial templates are around 20 points, so giving some kind of funky vision is going to make them more expensive. It seems kind of weird as a power-up (why do only some dwarves have Darkvision?) but it's not inconsistent with the general wonkiness of the sub-genre.

[fewilcox]

I always prefer to make my own racial templates, but that sounds like ranks of Night Vision (B71, 4ish CP) or Dark Vision (B47, 25 CP).

But I'm not in the habit of giving out darkvision as it tends to be too disruptive to the game (how can you have interesting lighting in a scene when some of the characters are never affected by such things?) so I'd just give them varying amounts of Night Vision -- which is exactly what I've done for such races in the past.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Most of the racial templates are around 20 points, so giving some kind of funky vision is going to make them more expensive. It seems kind of weird as a power-up (why do only some dwarves have Darkvision?) but it's not inconsistent with the general wonkiness of the sub-genre.

Gifts only granted to paragons of racial superiority after proving themselves?

[Gudiomen]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Gifts only granted to paragons of racial superiority after proving themselves?

Or leveling-up your squinting skills!

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by ciaran_skye

While rereading Dungeon Fantasy 2 and 3 as well as playing way too much Dungeons and Dragons Online and Neverwinter Nights 2 I've come to the realization that the templates presented in DF3 are missing some of the munchkiny features they have in other games - namely things like Infravision, Dark Vision, etc.

Would allowing it, either starting or as a "Power Up" be terribly unbalancing or against the spirit of GURPS Dungeon Fantasy?

Species templates for DF have to be cheap, so that players can afford them, because Sean Punch forgot to include a "species template allowance" in the "class" templates in DF1.

That's all there is to it.

If the GM solves the budget problem, e.g. by giving all playes 300 CPs to build characters with instead of the default 250 CPs, or via some other functioning method, it should work out fine.

You'd get more complex ability interactions in combat, and just before combat, but that's entirely in the spirit of DF, and there's no reason to assume GURPS can't handle those ability interactions as least as well as the best edition of D&D can.

I also can't see that there's anything munchkinrish about either Infravision or Dark Visio, at all, if the setting is aware that those trait exists and therefore, in accordance wth the principles of realism, has evolved appropriate tactics to deal with them.

edit: I overlooked the "power-up" part. Others have already addressed the unrealsm of this, and I have nothing to say that hasn't already been said, on that subject.

[panton41]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

If the GM solves the budget problem, e.g. by giving all playes 300 CPs to build characters with instead of the default 250 CPs, or via some other functioning method, it should work out fine.

That's my SOP. I give them 300 points so they can either buy a racial template, "multiclass" or strengthen their core "class".

edit: I overlooked the "power-up" part. Others have already addressed the unrealsm of this, and I have nothing to say that hasn't already been said, on that subject.

Yeah, I didn't think that part of the original post well. I blame lack of sleep.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Gifts only granted to paragons of racial superiority after proving themselves?

It's good enough for D&D 3.5 (yep, there are 'racial paragon' classes), but that doesn't mean it has to be good enough for you...

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by ciaran_skye

That's my SOP. I give them 300 points so they can either buy a racial template, "multiclass" or strengthen their core "class".

I just use Eric's "DF on a budget" templates. People can be Celopterran Martial Artist/Thiefs on 250 points. They just need to tone down some of the ability and skill levels.

I actually like this better as I feel it gives more room to grow.

[Kuroshima]

Personally, I also give 300 points, and allow them to take 20 more points of disadvantages, on top of the 50+5 in the professional templates. Mind you, this means that you get very competent starting characters! One of them even managed to include a racial lens and a lens! (Wood Elf Scout/Mystic Knight).

Next time, I might go for reduced templates from Eric's DF on the cheap.