Modern Mythology - Page 2

~~Figleaf23~~ · 01-31-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip

My flat mate had a former girlfriend that apparantly once said that she was happy that she did not live during the time that the Lord of The Ring movies were set. ....

Well, geez, you can understand her concern. Things here on Earth are a lot better since we got rid of Sauron, eh?

aesir23 · 01-31-2010, 08:34 PM

Examine popular film and television. They are telling the stories that define our world view in the same way that myths did in pre-literate cultures. The Monomyth sneaks into all of our stories, and serves as a mirror reflecting ourselves.

As an example, just look at how the Western genre changed as we moved away from an idealization of American history during the 60s and 70s. Compare with how our vision of other mythical heroes changed during the same eras (Cops and Soldiers, for instance.)

For a darker view, look at the rise of fascism. The intentional creation of new national mythologies was an important part of Mussilini and Hitler's success in winning over their people.

panton41 · 01-31-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip

My flat mate had a former girlfriend that apparently once said that she was happy that she did not live during the time that the Lord of The Ring movies were set.

I agree with Ron White, you can't fix stupid...lol

Edges · 01-31-2010, 09:55 PM

Myth has been defined in many ways. Just discussing what it means is the subject of many college courses and lengthy texts.

It seems that myths could be something which is, at the time, considered true by most and is later considered fiction. If this were the case, modern mythologies would be sort of anti-conspiracy theory. If, for example, in a hundred years we discovered and agreed as a people that we actually did not land on the moon in the '60s, than landing on the moon would be a myth.

For this reason it should be difficult to identify modern myths unless we be conspiracy theorists of some kind. I know people who believe that HIV is a myth, some that believe Al-Qaeda is a myth, that Jesus is a myth, etc. I suppose they could turn out to be right. I would be surprised... but perhaps no more surprised than the average viking who somehow discovered that Thor was a myth. Less surprising myths might be things like Oswald alone killed Kennedy or the towers fell because of planes. Ideological myths could turn out to be things like, "land can be owned", "money can make you happy", "war can create peace", etc. Anything that is widely taken for granted could in principle be totally disbelieved by future generations. Maybe the stock market is not chaotic (mathematically speaking) but is completely dependent on the number of people in the US currently using the meditation skill. Strange... but you never know.

Or one could take the stance that a myth never need be considered true to be called such. In this case, we have a wealth of modern fiction too vast to list. Maybe it has to reach enough people to be a cultural phenomenon to be called myth. Then we point to Star Wars, Batman, Harry Potter, etc.

Some consider myths to be a plot line repeated so much that it becomes part of the culture (independent of "truth"). In this case, we have the cliché.

Sometimes "gods" are just people who get blown out of proportion over time. In their day they were good, but give it a few centuries and they're a mythological being. Tesla could become a "god". Nostradamus. Some people talk about the founding fathers of the USA in a sort of semi-divine tone. And who can forget Elvis!? Or Marylin Monroe? Give it a couple centuries and the icons take on mythical aspects. Now none of these people live in today's "modern" world. But that is beside the point. If they became mythological in modern times (or perhaps in the future [concerning the OP's question]), they could be called modern myths.

(Wait... why is this a GURPS thread and not General Chatter? Was it the use of the term Tech Level?)

Jürgen Hubert · 01-31-2010, 11:42 PM

Urban Legends are a good starting point. The TV Tropes Wiki is another, for it dissects how we tell our stories.

Þorkell · 02-01-2010, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

Myth reflect the societies in which they occure. Viking myths reflected Viking values and life styles, as did pretty much every other society. This leads me to wonder what sort of myths, gods, monsters and heros would arrise in modern society, or even the society of higher tech levels, reflecting how people in those societies lived. Any Ideas?

There are no Viking myths.

Norse myths on the other hand....

SonofJohn · 02-01-2010, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciaran_skye

I agree with Ron White, you can't fix stupid...lol

Didnt Tolkien actually stated that the Novels take place in some kind of distant past and because of this he used the astrological make up of western europe?

Exeter · 02-01-2010, 06:48 AM

I agree with basically everything that's been said in this thread so far, but I'd like to add a couple of more ideas to stir the pot.

First, consider that a myth need not be an untrue story (although that definition is used when we dismiss things like Bigfoot as "only a myth"). Thus, it's perfectly valid to consider the story of Jesus a myth yet still maintain that such a person existed and did the things he's said to have done.

That brings me to my second point. I think the two great sources of modern mythology are religion and science. Religion as a source of myth should be fairly obvious (since what is the Bible, for example, but a big book of stories?), so I'd like to concentrate a bit on science for a bit.

Before the Enlightenment and the corresponding belief that man had the ability to figure out the world around him using the power of his mind and senses, myths largely took the form of all-powerful gods and monsters. Monsters, in particular, tend to be embodiments of our fears (see GURPS Horror for more info about that). These days, as others have mentioned, myths tend to take the form of conspiracy theories and alien abduction scenarios. I'm sure folklorists out there have written dissertations untangling what conspiracy theories and alien scenarios mean in terms of modern man's fears and desires, but my point is that if you figure out what the feeling behind the story is, then you'll have captured the essence of it and you'll be able to make more effective use of it in your games.

One final thing: if you're looking for a source in popular culture that's very much based in folklore, I'd suggest watching at least the first two seasons of Supernatural. (The latter seasons tend to focus more on demons and angels than the first two, but, without exception, I've found that every episode has at least some basis in folklore.)

sgtcallistan · 02-01-2010, 08:49 AM

The ancient is new again (every time):
The Journey to the West, re-told as 'Monkey', 'Draonball', 'Pokemon', a psychological treatise on several aspects of a psyche growing and developing during a life, it's parallels with the western 'getting of wisdom' legends, how heroes are surrounded by a group of assisting others who act as foils, advisers, distractions, loved ones...

The Colonel · 02-01-2010, 09:14 AM

Serial killer legends are probably a useful jumping off point - possibly leading to mythagos like the Candyman for RPG purposes.

01-31-2010, 08:34 PM	#12
aesir23 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vermont	Re: Modern Mythology Examine popular film and television. They are telling the stories that define our world view in the same way that myths did in pre-literate cultures. The Monomyth sneaks into all of our stories, and serves as a mirror reflecting ourselves. As an example, just look at how the Western genre changed as we moved away from an idealization of American history during the 60s and 70s. Compare with how our vision of other mythical heroes changed during the same eras (Cops and Soldiers, for instance.) For a darker view, look at the rise of fascism. The intentional creation of new national mythologies was an important part of Mussilini and Hitler's success in winning over their people. __________________ My ongoing thread of GURPS versions of DC Comics characters.

01-31-2010, 09:55 PM	#14
Edges Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: GMT-5	Re: Modern Mythology Myth has been defined in many ways. Just discussing what it means is the subject of many college courses and lengthy texts. It seems that myths could be something which is, at the time, considered true by most and is later considered fiction. If this were the case, modern mythologies would be sort of anti-conspiracy theory. If, for example, in a hundred years we discovered and agreed as a people that we actually did not land on the moon in the '60s, than landing on the moon would be a myth. For this reason it should be difficult to identify modern myths unless we be conspiracy theorists of some kind. I know people who believe that HIV is a myth, some that believe Al-Qaeda is a myth, that Jesus is a myth, etc. I suppose they could turn out to be right. I would be surprised... but perhaps no more surprised than the average viking who somehow discovered that Thor was a myth. Less surprising myths might be things like Oswald alone killed Kennedy or the towers fell because of planes. Ideological myths could turn out to be things like, "land can be owned", "money can make you happy", "war can create peace", etc. Anything that is widely taken for granted could in principle be totally disbelieved by future generations. Maybe the stock market is not chaotic (mathematically speaking) but is completely dependent on the number of people in the US currently using the meditation skill. Strange... but you never know. Or one could take the stance that a myth never need be considered true to be called such. In this case, we have a wealth of modern fiction too vast to list. Maybe it has to reach enough people to be a cultural phenomenon to be called myth. Then we point to Star Wars, Batman, Harry Potter, etc. Some consider myths to be a plot line repeated so much that it becomes part of the culture (independent of "truth"). In this case, we have the cliché. Sometimes "gods" are just people who get blown out of proportion over time. In their day they were good, but give it a few centuries and they're a mythological being. Tesla could become a "god". Nostradamus. Some people talk about the founding fathers of the USA in a sort of semi-divine tone. And who can forget Elvis!? Or Marylin Monroe? Give it a couple centuries and the icons take on mythical aspects. Now none of these people live in today's "modern" world. But that is beside the point. If they became mythological in modern times (or perhaps in the future [concerning the OP's question]), they could be called modern myths. (Wait... why is this a GURPS thread and not General Chatter? Was it the use of the term Tech Level?)

01-31-2010, 11:42 PM	#15
Jürgen Hubert Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Oldenburg, Germany	Re: Modern Mythology Urban Legends are a good starting point. The TV Tropes Wiki is another, for it dissects how we tell our stories. __________________ GURPS Repository • Sunken Castles, Evil Poodles - translating German folk tales into English!

02-01-2010, 06:48 AM	#18
Exeter Join Date: Apr 2009	Re: Modern Mythology I agree with basically everything that's been said in this thread so far, but I'd like to add a couple of more ideas to stir the pot. First, consider that a myth need not be an untrue story (although that definition is used when we dismiss things like Bigfoot as "only a myth"). Thus, it's perfectly valid to consider the story of Jesus a myth yet still maintain that such a person existed and did the things he's said to have done. That brings me to my second point. I think the two great sources of modern mythology are religion and science. Religion as a source of myth should be fairly obvious (since what is the Bible, for example, but a big book of stories?), so I'd like to concentrate a bit on science for a bit. Before the Enlightenment and the corresponding belief that man had the ability to figure out the world around him using the power of his mind and senses, myths largely took the form of all-powerful gods and monsters. Monsters, in particular, tend to be embodiments of our fears (see GURPS Horror for more info about that). These days, as others have mentioned, myths tend to take the form of conspiracy theories and alien abduction scenarios. I'm sure folklorists out there have written dissertations untangling what conspiracy theories and alien scenarios mean in terms of modern man's fears and desires, but my point is that if you figure out what the feeling behind the story is, then you'll have captured the essence of it and you'll be able to make more effective use of it in your games. One final thing: if you're looking for a source in popular culture that's very much based in folklore, I'd suggest watching at least the first two seasons of Supernatural. (The latter seasons tend to focus more on demons and angels than the first two, but, without exception, I've found that every episode has at least some basis in folklore.)

02-01-2010, 08:49 AM	#19
sgtcallistan Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Chatham, Kent, England	Re: Modern Mythology The ancient is new again (every time): The Journey to the West, re-told as 'Monkey', 'Draonball', 'Pokemon', a psychological treatise on several aspects of a psyche growing and developing during a life, it's parallels with the western 'getting of wisdom' legends, how heroes are surrounded by a group of assisting others who act as foils, advisers, distractions, loved ones...

02-01-2010, 09:14 AM	#20
The Colonel Join Date: Jul 2006	Re: Modern Mythology Serial killer legends are probably a useful jumping off point - possibly leading to mythagos like the Candyman for RPG purposes.