02-06-2019, 09:58 PM | #41 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Re: Empathy with low IQ
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Still a bonus to psychology? For 5 points? With a disastrous tie-in I have to role-play? No, thank you. I'd rather take talent. Last edited by Thamior; 02-06-2019 at 10:02 PM. |
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02-06-2019, 10:12 PM | #42 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Empathy with low IQ
It doesn't qualify you as notably observant either.
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Last edited by David Johnston2; 02-06-2019 at 10:20 PM. |
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02-07-2019, 11:54 AM | #43 |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Re: Empathy with low IQ
Therefore I provided 12 IQ example. 13 IQ to break 50-50. And this is even worse because you can't even cheat the broken rule. Brilliant. Also you don't have to be genius to be empathic IRL.
If I took an advantage and I don't role-play it why did I take it in the first place? If I take it I will voluntarily use it - this is good role-playing. I want those bonus points and satisfaction. Sorry, but your arguments didn't convince me at all. |
02-07-2019, 12:20 PM | #44 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Empathy with low IQ
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Empathy requires interpretation that was based off IQ. There are things you can already take to mitigate that (Based on X or adding Reliable) if you want to be a good empath with a low IQ. You still get a discount, you just have to buy other things to make up for your lack of IQ. |
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02-07-2019, 01:22 PM | #45 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Empathy with low IQ
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02-07-2019, 01:29 PM | #46 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Re: Empathy with low IQ
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Sensitive, on the contrary, is leading you astray when GM lies to you when you fail the roll. It is actively harming you. And it is not obvious at all out of the box why exactly it does that? So in your examples when there is no synergy, yes the advantage of having those traits is not so lucrative but it is there and with no implied disadvantage to you. This is actually what I was advocating for. And this is what we get if we tweak Empathy as I and many others in this thread have advised. I understand that having ability to be 100% sure about whether a person is lying is massive. But the way it is mitigated is not working. And it is not even consistent with the basic sense of the rules as someone has mentioned here. |
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02-07-2019, 03:02 PM | #47 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Empathy with low IQ
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The point, however, is that bad choices are usually avoided by experience or advice rather than by altering game rules. It's not broken to say "you don't want this unless you have something get gets your roll up to X". After all, you don't want to go skydiving with an instructor that has no or really low skill, any more than you want to pilot have a 10 or less either. There's no end to occupations that have serious consequences if you attempt things with a low roll (demolitions?, stunt men?, electrical work?). That being said, saying you don't get a reading on a failure and deliberately misleading them on a critical failure should be up to the GM. I've alternated with "detect lies vs acting" by sometimes saying you can't tell and other times saying that you're sure it's either the truth or a lie. You can't critically fail that, so what the MoS does is pretty much up to the GM. People that lie well should reap a certain reward if they also buy the skills to do so. |
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02-08-2019, 07:52 AM | #48 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia
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Re: Empathy with low IQ
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And if you have IQ 10 like most people do AND have Sensitive, you are not sensitive (unless you enhance) - you are hysterical, you overreact and misconstrue peoples expressions. Then it is clearly a disadvantage. When you aim with low skill you still have a dice range where you just fail and not critically fail. And a pretty damn wide range too. And this is exactly what I would like to emulate here. Or integrate degree of failure. Like fail by 3 or 5 and get lied to by GM. And what about abuse? When player knows he has a chance of success this low he will know that most of the time he should act opposite to what he senses. It's simple mathematics. And, as I suggest, when he simply DOESN'T sense anything, he could not do that, because he won't be sure. It's more fun. You have to think. There is risk. And if you add to this critical failure when GM does lie to you, it's even more interesting. With this in mind, hell, you can even make the -3 penalty higher. Like, - 5. I'm not against limiting the power of this advantage, I'm against how it is done now. Last edited by Thamior; 02-08-2019 at 07:56 AM. |
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02-08-2019, 08:20 AM | #49 |
Hero of Democracy
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
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Re: Empathy with low IQ
Pyramid 3/21 and Power Ups 3: talents feature the Empath talent. Its meant to replace empathy, and includes the special IQ roll. If you need a better response to that roll, you can uncap the talent level for that talent for that player. I often uncap talents for players whose base attribute is low to start with.
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02-08-2019, 09:54 AM | #50 | ||||
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Empathy with low IQ
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At the 5 point level it functions more like a talent and notes that it's not entirely reliable. If you want to have moderate or low IQ with a higher success number, why isn't either Reliable or Talent your solution? You normally invest points in things if you want to be good at them. There's no basis for complaint if you don't invest in get the skills to use it effectively. Quote:
The ancillary benefit of "asking for a feeling" about someone, is more reliable if you're better at interpreting things. You don't have to use it, you don't have to rely on it, and failure gives you the wrong impression. Presumably if you know it's not reliable you won't trust it too far. That doesn't make you hysterical and you're not obligated to try to analyze people with Empathy. Quote:
The GM saying "he's pompus and selfish" doesn't mean that he lacks those traits or even that he has those traits. It may be a false impression based on a certain reaction or just something said at that moment. Quote:
It's really more of a specialized talent with a somewhat specific bonus. Like all Talents, it's only useful if you're interested in further developing your character with the traits that it encourages. Last edited by naloth; 02-08-2019 at 09:58 AM. |
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empathy, reliable |
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