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Old 06-26-2019, 03:56 AM   #11
Tywyll
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default Re: Defending - on behalf of someone else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
Several different points to make:

- In response to Skarg saying the shieldman will attack first: With a pole arm charge, even if you want to attack the pole man to save your archer, the charge goes first regardless of DX (unless the shieldman also has a pole arm).

- if you want to defend archers, you merely need to stand in front of them and engage foes before they get to the archer. Your presence and front hexes block movement. No new talent needed.

- if you want to protect someone from archery by being in between, you may be better off dodging. If the enemy archer tries to miss you, and fails the roll (which is harder when you dodge) you do not get hit. Rolling to miss a foe fails results in the projectile hitting the ground. Rolling to miss a friend fails results in the friend getting hit. The dodging back fires if they instead try to hit you. In any case, by dodging you may pick off the first arrow.
For me, at least, I'm looking for a way to represent a character pushing someone out of the way as they are attacked. In other words, if the attacker is engaged with you and your mate (or you are at least adjacent to your mate who is engaged) and they attack your mate but you want to take that hit instead. Basically stuff that bodyguards do in real life (leaping in front of the bullet, knife, etc) which because of the Move then Act nature of TFT is hard to represent.
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Old 06-26-2019, 10:59 AM   #12
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Defending - on behalf of someone else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tywyll View Post
For me, at least, I'm looking for a way to represent a character pushing someone out of the way as they are attacked. In other words, if the attacker is engaged with you and your mate (or you are at least adjacent to your mate who is engaged) and they attack your mate but you want to take that hit instead. Basically stuff that bodyguards do in real life (leaping in front of the bullet, knife, etc) which because of the Move then Act nature of TFT is hard to represent.
You could try adding a "shove friend" option that lets you take your action to try to shove an ally in your front hex one hex further away. You'd need to roll DX to do it, and they might need to roll DX to avoid falling down in the new hex.

Allowing Defending for someone else would work, but isn't that much better than them defending themselves... well, unless you have a high-level talent that improves your defense. But it would allow them to be defended and then to take Disengage themselves.

Otherwise it's down to attacking the attacker (if you're a really great fencer or martial artist you might be able to disarm or thrown them - or if you have high adjDX you might be able to take them out with an aimed shot - or if you're strong, take them out with effects of injury or a shield rush), or maybe engaging them in HTH if you have higher MA than them.

And of course, a bodyguard with high DX and some attack-spoiling spell would certainly work - you could even train a bodyguard in Blur or Clumsiness or Trip etc...

These sorts of things tend to work really well in GURPS ... TFT is more abstract and chunky with times and actions (so as Axly pointed out, the main way is to prevent attacks by engaging attackers with your Front hexes), and limited in the action list, but there are some options I mentioned without having to have a specialized bodyguard talent.

Last edited by Skarg; 06-26-2019 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 06-27-2019, 04:05 AM   #13
Tywyll
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default Re: Defending - on behalf of someone else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
You could try adding a "shove friend" option that lets you take your action to try to shove an ally in your front hex one hex further away. You'd need to roll DX to do it, and they might need to roll DX to avoid falling down in the new hex.

Allowing Defending for someone else would work, but isn't that much better than them defending themselves... well, unless you have a high-level talent that improves your defense. But it would allow them to be defended and then to take Disengage themselves.

<snip>

These sorts of things tend to work really well in GURPS ... TFT is more abstract and chunky with times and actions (so as Axly pointed out, the main way is to prevent attacks by engaging attackers with your Front hexes), and limited in the action list, but there are some options I mentioned without having to have a specialized bodyguard talent.
I don't mind adding a new talent. But I would just want that to make you better at doing something anyone should be able to do. If your friend is down to their last ST and you want to push them aside and take the hit that would kill them yourself...that's the kind of roleplaying I encourage.
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:18 PM   #14
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Defending - on behalf of someone else?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tywyll View Post
I don't mind adding a new talent. But I would just want that to make you better at doing something anyone should be able to do. If your friend is down to their last ST and you want to push them aside and take the hit that would kill them yourself...that's the kind of roleplaying I encourage.
This sounds like a great idea. We've all seen one fighter is our squad hit a bad run of luck and watched helplessly as one more attack is headed his way. Being able to selflessly step in seems like a worthy game mechanic to add.

The trick will be to come up with something that won't be so strong that it just abuses the game. And not so weak that the normal options are better every time.

X is going to hit A. B is adjacent to X and A. B is our brave hero that wants to save A. These are the situations you want to work through. For all of these situations you want the answer to be "sometimes this is better":

- what if B just struck A instead of the new move. A kill or injury (5 or 8 points) may achieve the same.

- what about a shield slam from B. A knock down will be just as good.

- what if B attempts HTH with X. That will stop him.

It cannot be so good that you have it become the standard move to every fight. A tag-team move.


OR come up with a way that B's move is very successful at the stated goal but with a big downside. For example, allow B to dive onto A. If he does this X may only attack B, but both B and A are now prone in the same hex. It will save A for a turn.

Good luck. I am curious what you come up with.
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Old 07-02-2019, 07:40 PM   #15
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Durham, NC
Default Re: Defending - on behalf of someone else?

How about this. Go with Skarg's shove option. As Skarg said: your friend is move directly one hex and he needs to do a DX roll to avoid falling. In addition I would add that the pusher (our hero B) must move into the hex vacated by A.

The selfless hero faces the wrath that was just about to befall his friend.

I like this additional twist since it makes it less attractive and less likely to be abused.
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Old 07-03-2019, 09:16 AM   #16
Tywyll
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default Re: Defending - on behalf of someone else?

I think ending abuse is this simple:
When an ally is adjacent and is hit in combat, if you have moved less than 1/2 your MA that turn and not taken any additional action, you may push the ally out of their hex and take their place. You are struck instead of them (suffering whatever result the attacker originally rolled). Your ally must make a 3/Dx roll or fall prone in their new hex. Their new hex must be empty before being shoved there. This shove can end engagement.

So you only have limited movement.
You lose your action.
You take the damage they would have.
You have a chance to leave them prone, which is never good.

In exchange-
They don't suffer the damage.
You can break engagement for them.

You could easily kill yourself performing this maneuver.

I suppose you could require a 3/Dx roll on the part of the person using this ability to trigger it if you don't want it to be automatic.
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