Anti-Mage Character

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by chimchim

Except every magi worth the name will have missile shield at skill 20 and have it on all the time. The arrow will never hit the magi.

Unless it's Meteoric.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by B9anders

Unless it's Meteoric.

arrows are bad for that, the entire arrow needs to be meteoric. Sling bullets on the other hand...

[Desthro]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Desthro I think you might want to look at this post from Obscure (Magic) and Invisibility (Magic) (added an under line so an italics word showed up in the quote)

Since I wasn't on yesterday, if you'll note, that obscure is blocking the ability to SENSE things magically. It's not blocking the ability to cast a fireball, or enchant an item or purify food and water. No, it's blocking a DIVINATION SENSE.

That being said, its based on senses, whatever that sense may be. And you still have to buy obscure per sense.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by chimchim

Except every magi worth the name will have missile shield at skill 20 and have it on all the time. The arrow will never hit the magi.

That seems improbable to me. Someone with IQ 14 and Magery 3 is a respectable mage indeed – a mere point in a spell already sees him enjoying energy savings, Magery 3 is the limit in many settings, and IQ 14 is hardly stupid. Yet skill 20 in Missile Shield represents a 16-point investment, which is a huge number of points in a single spell . . . especially for a wizard who prefers to avoid fights. Plenty of bad-guy wizards prefer Mind Control, Illusion and Creation, and Communication and Empathy spells from behind the scenes, and wouldn't see 16 points for immunity to arrows as worthwhile.

While I like high-powered gaming as much as the next person, I think that "All mages will have this long list of defenses up at all times, at levels where the maintenance cost doesn't bother them, and also have high enough skill with everything else they cast that being at -n for n spells on isn't an issue" is a fallacy. It's commonly rolled out as a criticism of the GURPS magic system – but frankly, I don't see it. It's really only true in very high-powered games where threats and defenses are rather mass-produced and predictable.

[chimchim]

Originally Posted by Kromm

That seems improbable to me. Someone with IQ 14 and Magery 3 is a respectable mage indeed – a mere point in a spell already sees him enjoying energy savings, Magery 3 is the limit in many settings, and IQ 14 is hardly stupid. Yet skill 20 in Missile Shield represents a 16-point investment, which is a huge number of points in a single spell . . . especially for a wizard who prefers to avoid fights. Plenty of bad-guy wizards prefer Mind Control, Illusion and Creation, and Communication and Empathy spells from behind the scenes, and wouldn't see 16 points for immunity to arrows as worthwhile.

While I like high-powered gaming as much as the next person, I think that "All mages will have this long list of defenses up at all times, at levels where the maintenance cost doesn't bother them, and also have high enough skill with everything else they cast that being at -n for n spells on isn't an issue" is a fallacy. It's commonly rolled out as a criticism of the GURPS magic system – but frankly, I don't see it. It's really only true in very high-powered games where threats and defenses are rather mass-produced and predictable.

Maybe its the players I've gmed for but I cant remember in twenty years a mage pc with out it lol.

[Harald B]

Having it at 20 may be a tall order. But with only Apportation (or Shield) as a preq, having it at all is so easy you'd expect any mage who bothers with combat-related magic at all to pick it up soon enough. They may not want to keep it up all the time, but they can just cast it when it looks like they'll need it and use the equally easily learned Deflect Missile if they do get caught off-guard. I'd say that unless you can sneak up and shoot them in the back, you should not expect ranged weapons to be much use against advanced mages.

[chimchim]

Originally Posted by Harald B

Having it at 20 may be a tall order. But with only Apportation (or Shield) as a preq, having it at all is so easy you'd expect any mage who bothers with combat-related magic at all to pick it up soon enough. They may not want to keep it up all the time, but they can just cast it when it looks like they'll need it and use the equally easily learned Deflect Missile if they do get caught off-guard. I'd say that unless you can sneak up and shoot them in the back, you should not expect ranged weapons to be much use against advanced mages.

Most of the campaigns I ran with magic were 3rd ed which meant the skill investment was lower (8 pointa rather than 16) to get the magic 20.
My currant 4th ed fantasy campaign has two mage pc both have missile shield one at skill 15 the other at 16.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by chimchim

Maybe its the players I've gmed for but I cant remember in twenty years a mage pc with out it lol.

It's exceedingly common in my games, too.

Originally Posted by Harald B

Having it at 20 may be a tall order.

. . . but yeah, not everyone has it at skill 20, so having it up all the time just isn't going to happen.

Shooting mages with ranged weapons is generally a low-percentage move. But equally, "Missile Shield-20 and it's up whenever I'm awake" is also low-percentage. I wouldn't bet on an anti-mage missile weapon user but I wouldn't bet on all mages have Missile Shield up all the time, either.

The threat of ranged weapons forcing mages to learn and use Missile Shield is valuable in and of itself, though - that's expended time to learn, and a -1 to all other spells they cast while it's up. You have to at least threaten it to force people to take it.

[GURPS man]

Other advantages that might be useful:

-"Feedback": Damage Resistance (Magic, 20%) (Reflective, +100%) (Semi-Ablative, -20%) 8 cp/lvl --> A few levels of this should scare most mages from directly dealing damage to you and, coupled with normal armor, should make magical missiles do very little damage. An alternative version could be DR (Magic, -20%; Semi-Ablative 20%; Abortive heal only, +80%) 7 cp/lvl --> magic attacks heal. Or just plain DR (magic, -20%; semi-ablative, -20%) for 3 cp/lvl is dirt cheap and super effective.

-MR, as people have mentioned above

-Detect (magic) or (mage)

-High Will and HT

-Obscure (magical senses), doesn't exist in basic, but the GM may let it slide. Similarly, given the heavy magic nature of the world the GM may allow a mundane Technique (hard, -10?) off the Stealth skill to work vs magical senses, wards, and scrys.

-See invisible

-Anything that drains FP makes a mage's life very hard. A poison modeled as Innate attack, follow-up?

-Mages have a lot of mobility between teleport, blink, flight, etc. You'll need to keep up with non-magical means. Super-jump, clinging, Brachiator with a climbing line (Powers Up, Perks), etc OR some good ranges attack.

-Movement >11, giving you 2 yard steps, will help you retreating dodge out of area of effects. Very useful.

Equipment:
-Lime powder (dirt cheap): dust form deals continuous damage = continuous shock, making spells difficult to cast (make sure to stack multiple doses); powder form on blade = severe pain --> difficult to cast; in the eyes cause blindness, which is super bad for mages (check out the blowpipe skill)

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Desthro

Yeah, no. Don't think so. Obscure affects Senses Only, such as things tied to sight, hearing, taste, smell, and touch. If its "mage sense only" then it only makes it harder for them to detect differences in mana level and other bits that it gives them. You can try and say it reduces their skill, but it doesn't. If it blocks all senses, it'll hamper them in ways that aren't skill related, but they still have full skill.

Secondly, you must buy obscure /per sense./ That means, For sight, hearing, taste/smell, touch, "mage sense", you must buy it again. Not sure were you are getting the broad skill interference bit, but it's definitely not true. +100% for all senses is insanity. And any GM that allows that is mentally challenged.

Furthermore, Magery as a Talent for bonuses to skill are NOT sense related, it's a talent. That's why they have Static and Neutralization.

Ok, I see what's going on.

Your dissecting the power wrong.

Start with obscure all senses (+100%) even ones I don't know about (+50% cosmic). (See the thread 'better then invisible' for this math)

With that combo ANYONE who targets/attempts to detect the character gets -1/level of obscure (and -1 to defend against others while in the obscure field). Useful for simulating 'blurr' type effects, a reality warping presence, or being 'more invisible then invisible'

Now add 'only against mages -40%', this is not 'only vs mage sight' it is that only mages are effected by your ability, much like if you were to have 'charisma +5, only on redheads -40%' , it has nothing to do with the special senses mages (or redheads) may have, its just that they are the only ones who fall victim by your power. It effects every sense the mage has, (even if they add new ones that are not cosmic) so basically cannot be worked around, but a normal person does not experience a thing.

Having it be part of the 'anti-magic' power suite, again does not really mean anything specific, just that the power will have certain limitations like any power suite (It might make perfect sense to have a 10d6 corrosion attack in an anti-magic power suite if disrupting the flow of magic through a non-magical being would be harmful, or you might again apply 'only vs mages/magical beings' if a normal person would be uneffected by such).